Ep 15: Enhancing the human element – Silvana Martin

Adam Clarke 0:01
Welcome to risk sleep repeat, a podcast that features influential guest speakers from the world of fire, health and safety. We’re going to focus on trust based safety, owning and embracing risk and the importance of people over paperwork, hosted by me, Adam Clark, Managing Director, and Mike Stevens, CEO of practice 42. If you’re a fire, health and safety professional, join us for inspirational conversations about the future of our industry. Today I’m joined by Silvana Martin wellbeing leader at Langer rock. Silvana is a passionate wellbeing professional, with extensive experience in the fields of wellbeing, change, management, health, safety and inclusion. Silvana has a proven track record of defining, developing and delivering health, wellbeing, safety and inclusion strategies, effectively embedding these into the culture of an organisation. So welcome to the podcast. Man, I thank you so much for taking the time out to talk to me today, I’d love to start just to give our listeners a bit of a background of who you are, what you’re about, and how you got to where you are right now. So definitely give me a little bit of an overview of your, your journey today.

Speaker 1 1:10
Yes, of course, Adam, and thank you so much for inviting me along to do this podcast. So I currently will be in leader for Lego rock for the European hub. But my journey getting here has been quite a varied journey. And I guess that’s really what we’re going to be talking about today. So yeah, where did I start? So I remember when I was sort of just doing my A levels and thinking about what I wanted to do around my career, I wasn’t really sure, but I loved languages. And I actually thought I was gonna go abroad and teach English. So I did a degree in English and Italian at the University of Manchester. And then actually, as I completed that, I thought, actually, I don’t really want to do that anymore. I’ve changed my mind, it’s not really something that I wanted to do, I’d actually been out and done some of it over this sort of like the holidays, and I’ve done a year out, which was great. And it was a great experience. But it gave me the opportunity to really think about well, is this really what I want to do? And actually, at the end of it, no, it wasn’t. So then I looked at things like translation interpreting that sort of stuff. And I ended up actually in a job in sales and marketing, selling health and safety training, which was really my first job. So and that was great, because I actually went on to do a sort of qualification in marketing and in sales, and actually realised that I really loved the people side of things, the safety training was fine, it was just sort of something that I got used to and sort of was able to sort of sell across different industries. So that’s sort of where I started out. But then I moved out of the sort of health and safety training arena into something quite different, and actually used my sales and marketing background, but also went into business improvement, and sort of change management and process improvement. So looking at how we could drive efficiencies. So I went into a role where basically, I was just facilitating change and looking at ways in which we can drive efficiencies across the business. And it was almost an internal sales and marketing role if you’d like because obviously, with that, you need to bring people along on the journey. So I still used the skills but not in the obvious way, I suppose that you would imagine sales and marketing role to sort of play out. And I spent sort of five years working with different teams, it was great just looking at where we could drive business efficiencies, and managing the change process along the way. And it was great, because actually, that was quite a varied role. And I would work with sort of big teams winning the work. So using the sales and marketing background there, I suppose. And then working with the project teams to actually put in place, the plan that we had, and then looking at how we could drive efficiencies to increase the profit margin for the for the business, whilst we’re in that, you know, delivering the project phase. So with that, I was then approached around a particular role managing a behavioural safety programme. So you may have heard of it, I’m sure people in the industry will remember it, incidentally, injury free. So we’ve been working on terminal five and been working on big project, obviously with some great clients. And we’ve started to sort of learn a little bit about the behavioural safety programme. And I was asked to sort of consider whether I’d look at how we implement that across the organisation. Of course, it was something I wasn’t really familiar with my background actually isn’t health and safety. And that wasn’t something that I was looking to pursue. But I looked at the opportunity and to actually this is a programme that we’d be looking to implement across the whole organisation. It’s a massive opportunity. But I did raise my concerns, and actually in the discussions with the director that was really leading the programme. He’d said, Look, we don’t want a health and safety professional to run this because we want someone who is more focused on people and the change management process because actually taking people along quite a big different way of working and looking at how things will change is going to be the biggest part of it. The actual safety part isn’t really something that is the worry you don’t need to have the business compliance the safety risk understanding or those elements that you would traditionally Yeah, imagine a health and safety role to be around. So, so actually, yes, I, I thought about it for a couple of days and thought actually, this is a great opportunity and took that position. And it was a great springboard to be fair because it was actually working with people. And it was looking at how we manage behavioural change across the organisation. And it did take a good five years to really get that embedded. But it was a great opportunity to use sort of, again, you know, your influencing and negotiation skills to bring people along on the journey and recognise the benefits of doing that. And at the same time, we bedded a new culture and a set of behaviours, that meant that our safety performance improved massively over the five years. So yeah, so that was the incident injury free sort of programme manager role. And then we went on to develop the next phase of that. So we then self delivered and designed our own safety programmes around culture and behaviour. And what was the next sort of step? What are we trying to achieve? Where were we moving on to? So it was just pushing, I guess, the boundaries of where we’ve got to, you know, what’s, what does the next five years look like? How, how can we design this? And how can we bring people along? So quite a creative phase that we had to go through? Because we were starting from this is what we know so far, but what does the next five years look like? And what are other people doing and, you know, we looked at other I guess, industries, such as aviation and things like that, to see what was happening. But so we then designed our own programmes, and again, was spent a lot of time rolling out training people across the organisation volunteers that would come through, that wanted to actually get involved in delivering the message because it was important enough for them. And so we I did that for another few years. And then actually, there was a big gap in our occupational health and wellbeing programmes. So I think once the safety programmes were embedded, they were able to run on their own, they do really need the level of attention that they do, when obviously, you’re first starting out, putting together a programme and training and getting people to do all the communications around it, do the promotions, the marketing, all of that stuff that was already in place. So we were well established. So then my next step was really to look at our occupational health and well being programme and our approach in the organisation, there’d been some big change around people leaving. And so I did a big sort of six month sort of needs analysis, just looked at what we were doing across the organisation, and then versus what we needed, really, and put together a paper with some recommendations, and then delivered that to the board. At which point, they just then said, Look, this looks great. Can we go ahead and implement. So I then started, I guess, my journey in the Occupational Health and Wellbeing space around putting together the foundations what we needed, just from a legal compliance perspective, which was around obviously, managing our occupational health risks and making sure we had service providers in place that would support our gaps or what we needed just to make sure that our people was safe. And well, in the in the business and at work. And as the occupational health piece embedded, and people got familiar with the process of, you know, making sure that we’re doing all our necessary medicals fit for work, you know, health surveillance, that sort of thing. And then we started to look at, you know, what’s the next stage, which was the wellbeing piece, and then that’s the bit that’s really grown really, because it sort of has really pushed some of the expectations of what we can do as an organisation, in looking after our people and managing their wellbeing, but allowing them to actually thrive in the workplace and at home. So how do we balance that peace between, you know, how do we enhance the human element and making sure that people are living their best life at work and at home, and actually have having both of those can complementing each other rather than competing,

Adam Clarke 8:36
which I think is a massive challenge for so many organisations at the at the moment? And I guess, I was thinking, as you were saying that, you know, you’re one of the organisations that is large enough, and has the resources to be able to kind of lead the way. And, you know, what we could see now are the things that you’re working on, or have already implemented. Yeah, that trickle down effect for smaller organisations, you know, over the next three to five years, you’ll start to see some of the things that you’re doing now being rolled out because people get to see how it’s worked. Where you’ve tweaked it, and then you know, there’ll be great case studies coming coming out of that. It’s good for everybody to learn.

Speaker 1 9:19
Absolutely. And, you know, I think that you’ve mentioned the point about us being a big organisation and probably having the resources we have actually only a team of three in wellbeing. And when we look after 7000 employees across the organisation, and I think what’s happened, what’s held us in good stead is really the business improvement and the looking at where we drive efficiencies through processes and making sure we make the best out of our resources. Over the years that I was able to do that as part of my training and development. I’ve been able to implement that in the programmes and sort of the areas of the business that I look after. So we we do a lot with not very much, but we also use a lot of volunteers and people that want to get involved in The wellbeing space, especially mental health anyway, that people come forward and they ask, How can I get involved. And this is all discretionary effort that we rely upon, because people have got day jobs, but they are so passionate about either the well being space or mental health or a particular area such as like managing capacity and getting the best out of our people, that people are willing to come forward and support that. So do we do rely on we’ve got like 350, sort of mental health champions, we’ve got 40 Odd energy and capacity champions, and these are people that, yeah, I’ve got day jobs that keep them busy enough. And we use them and we say, Look, we will support you. So if you need some timeouts and few months where you know, things are really busy for you, just let us know, that’s fine, we can, you know, support that, and we’ll just use other people. But it is yeah, trying to manage that across a big business with clients that have got some great demands, and that, you know, want us to be the best that we can be and lead the way. But it’s a great challenge. And it’s a space that you can be really creative, because you’ve got to think outside the box. And I love that element of the role. You know, the key thing is trying to create a work environment that people, you know, love being part of, and want to be part of shaping it and moving it forward. And, you know, getting involved in the innovative and creative thinking. And I think we’re quite lucky in this business. And it’s probably a lot to do with being privately owned, in that we’re encouraged to be looking at new innovations, new ways of working. And, you know, one of our key drivers is around pushing boundaries, and making sure that, you know, however challenging it might be, just have the courage to look at pushing the boundaries, doing things that might be different. And, and I think one of the key things here is around actually just recognise that it’s okay to fail. Because actually, if you make a mistake, you learn from it. And so not everything is going to be perfect the whole time, you might test something, and it might not be as you expected it to turn out. But that’s okay. Because then you just go look, let’s redesign, let’s rethink, and let’s try this direction instead. And we are encouraged to do that. And I think one of the things that allows that to happen is our values and being able to live those across the organisation and getting people to go look, you know, our key values of care, integrity and courage are around you that have the courage to try something different, you know, do the things that actually are around caring for our people, our environment, you know, the communities that we work in, the stakeholders that we work with, you know, all the organisations that we partner with, but do it with integrity.

Adam Clarke 12:32
Think we know, we kind of have to recognise that, yes, the NHS have had cuts in resources, but equally, the campaigning around mental health and raising awareness, inevitably is going to link to more mental, more mental health issues as people, you know, people recognise it in themselves, and then seek seek treatment, it’s the same reason when you really get focused on the image reporting excellent reporting, and then you suddenly end up with more accidents, more near misses, doesn’t mean that they just come out of nowhere, it’s you’re actually focusing, focusing on it. So. And I think that’s, that’s the trend that we need to keep pushing towards, you know, obviously, there are lots of things that we can try and do proactively before people come into crisis. But, you know, she quite rightly said, there are those everybody goes through periods of times period of time where there are high stress situations, and some of those are very natural, like you mentioned, it might be bereavement, it might be new parent, all sorts of different different scenarios when you think, okay, you know, people have gone through this before. And, you know, let’s get those mechanisms in place to try and keep people keep people going, whilst they’re going through those tough

Speaker 1 13:41
times. Just thinking about that, what else can we do to support our people? Not, you know, we need to be thinking outside of the mental health space. And I think that’s one of the things that we’ve been able to sort of learn from over the last couple of years. And one of the things that we’ve, we’ve implemented across the organisation is around capacity and energy management. So giving people the tools and techniques to be able to manage their own capacity, because everyone’s working hard. There’s, you know, we’ve got more to do with less people and demands on us just grow, you know, over the years, you just sit back and go, Oh, my goodness, I’m sure actually, the demand just increases each year, at work and at home because people have got private lives as well, that they have to manage, you know, families and children or hobbies and things like that. And yeah, and we introduced a capacity management programme, actually, because we’re lucky enough to have you know, people in the organisation that have come in from a sports background, sports science background and psychology background. So they obviously look at, you know, what can we do to improve the performance of our athletes that we’re working with? And then being able to translate that into the corporate world has been a really interesting sort of journey, but our people have loved it. So being able to look at you know, how do you manage your physical energy, your mental energy, your emotional energy, and actually your purposeful energy? Because we don’t really test that very often do we say, Look, do we know what our purpose in life is? Are we living our life in accordance with our values, because we actually get Energy from those things. So if we’re doing stuff that we love, or that we really enjoy, and I think this is really key, and especially in this podcast, and really when you talk about, you know, how did I end up in my career? It’s been a very varied career. But actually what I’ve been able to do is say, What do what’s really important to me? What’s my purpose? And where do I get sort of value? And actually, you know, what’s my reason for getting out of bed in the morning, and one of the big things for me is about making a difference in helping people and whether that’s in you know, looking at sort of like change management programmes, looking at how we manage safety, look at how we look, after the well being and health of our people, all those things have been able to tick that box for me to say, actually, I can go home and go off, I’ve done the things that are really important to me as an individual. And I think that’s one of the key things because you never really know, at the age of what 16 1718 What you want to do for the rest of your life.

Adam Clarke 15:45
Of course, you don’t, you know, everybody wants to go and be a firefighter or policeman or a nurse or a doctor, you know, all go through those. So you make such a great point around kind of your, your purpose or your or your why and I think some people never really twig what that is. And I think the sooner that you can, you know, tweak what that is and what really motivates or to your point, energises you, I think it helps you take that path or look at where what the steps that you need to need to do or when you feel like general maybe the time is right to move, move on or diversify slightly. And you know, giving, giving in a way that helps people is a really powerful purpose. And you know, what, what you said there early on about the resources and having three, three person team for 7000? Well, actually, that means you are incredibly influential, and the kind of the ripple effect of the innovations that you take the paths that you get to discuss with the executive team, the you know, the potential impact of that across seven, I mean, not just 7000, it’ll go it’ll go way beyond that.

Speaker 1 16:50
Yeah, that’s great. Thank you for saying that. Because you don’t, you know, when you’re doing the job, you just think we just do the job. And then you don’t look at actually the bigger picture of what you how you’re actually influencing or touching others in the whether it’s industry, or different industries, or all of those things. But I think just touching back on the purpose thing, and, you know, if there was one thing that I would say it’s stay in touch with, what’s important to you, your values, and where you get the most satisfaction, because I think during different life stages as well, that changes. So you know, when I look at my career, sort of Post University, what I wanted to do, I was just been, you know, really ambitious, wanted to get on the career ladder, I wanted to do really well. And, you know, and then actually versus my, you know, I had my child when I was 38. And so my priorities sort of shifted, because actually, building a family and looking after Luca was really important, and actually making sure that he’s got a great future. So things change in at different lifetimes, different life stages as you develop, and your values and your purpose might change as well. And it’s okay to go, you know what, I need to do something different. Now, my focus might be actually building a career that supports me bringing up my family, or it might be actually I want the next five years to be a really senior manager in an organisation, but in this industry, because it’s what I feel really passionate about. So I think the important thing to think about is that will change, and that’s okay, and just go with what Yeah, gives you that, you know, satisfaction and makes you feel like I’m really enjoying getting out of bed in the morning going to work because when you don’t it, it can be really tough.

Adam Clarke 18:18
Oh, exactly. And then interesting, I was discussing with a colleague and a couple of days ago around when you’ve been a parent for for a few years, and then you’re in those modes where you know, work is busy, life is busy. And you sometimes think, how do I cope with just being kind of on all the time, even though it’s even those days, as I’m sure you’ve experienced when you actually don’t turn off at all you turn the secondary turn off is when you fall off the bed absolutely exhausted, knowing that you’ve got to get up and go for it the other day, but like you say, you’ve got your family that you’ve got to support and then in a work raid zone, you’ve got people who you know, you’re there to also support and lead and, and help moving on and it’s, you know, we go back to kind of, I suppose probably 1819 year old you if you’re able to look forward and think Wow, is that really what I’m going to what I’m going to be in in the future when you’re kind of set with minimal responsibilities and and massive amounts of time to do what you like with food to kind of go back to your your journey into getting where you where you were, I think it’s really interesting that kind of the start of your career, you were looking at sales and marketing, you were looking at change. And then you also kind of developed a commercial awareness. That’s fairly fairly early, early on. And in a lot of the podcast episodes that I’ve discussed with other guests, it’s, it tends to be people who have more of a subject matter expertise earlier on. And then as they go through their career and get higher up, they then kind of add on some more of those skills towards the the latter end. So it’s really interesting that you’ve got those you’ve had those first and I suspect that that’s been really, really influential in as you’ve was, you mentioned on a couple of different occasions where you were heavily involved in If you’re winning something called doing the analysis or putting the business case together, and then the team around you who’ve looked at what you’ve done, and then God said, Well, yeah, we’ve got great confidence in, in what you’ve put together, why would we not want you to go and implement it?

Speaker 1 20:16
And I would say, definitely, from an early in my career, I actually got quite a good understanding of different elements of, you know, the business really understanding, you know, the front end client part, you know, my sales or marketing background or that sort of thing. Then understanding actually the business operations, understanding, commercial and finance and depending on where I was, you know, what are the key things? Is it engineering? Is it construction? Is it you know, something else, but understanding how a business fundamentally works, was a great foundation for me. And I’m naturally like, quite nosy. And I, well, I call it curious. Everyone else’s nosy right, but what are we doing this department? Tell me about the human. And what happens here. And all I want to know, because actually, when you start to put all the pieces of Jigsaw together, you got Oh, I get it now. Okay. So this is important, because this happens. And that happens. And so yeah, I that. And that did absolutely set me in really, you know, just a great understanding for understanding business anyway, and how it operates, and what’s really important, but also in being able to put together right, okay, we need to put a business case together, what are the important things here? And actually, what’s adding value when you talk to the sort of like the finance team, you know, what do they want to see you here and just be really thinking about the people that you’re pitching up.

Adam Clarke 21:35
And I love curiosity, I nosy, but if I, you know, my early career, when I was out on the road a lot and going to various different places. I don’t know what it was, but I loved when I used to get, go behind, go behind the scenes and go back of house, even if it was in the really dingy plant rooms or engineering areas that I wanted to go in, I just loved seeing the things that you wouldn’t normally get get access to. But I think curiosity is a leadership trait is, is so important if you’re trying to kind of understand the whole picture and and look at how you can influence the whole picture. Yeah, having a bit of an understanding of what everybody does is, is really important and being able today, being brave, and being able to ask, ask questions where you, someone else might feel that you’re asking a really basic question. But if you don’t understand, it doesn’t matter, does it? Rather than kind of, we’ve all been in training courses where, you know, the, the trainer will say, right, they really understood that. And then no one’s really saying anything, one person puts their hands up and says, Do I actually didn’t quite get that bit. And then you’ve got the 10 other people. And they asked that question, because I didn’t really know, I didn’t really know, either. But being you know, can often refer to it being being able to expose your vulnerabilities. And being able to do that in front of in front of people that you might not feel comfortable, necessarily, might feel comfortable doing that with. But it just helps they’re trying to get that understanding. I mean, I’ve always been one with I hate being beaten by anything to do with it. And so I just kind of keep going and going and going and then I do a bit of googling. And then if I really feel like I’m going to sink way too much time into it, then I need to go and get get some help. But just to try and understand how something, something works. And I’m quite a logical person. So I sort of feel like well, if it’s a well designed system, it should be relatively easy to work out what I need to do, what I need to do next. But, but I think that’s really important trait for people to people to have, you know, to ask, ask a load of questions, try and find out how to do some things first, and you know, from a from a pure safety perspective you want if you want to be really effective, operationally, then go and understand what your what your people are doing, what the challenges they face, you know, what’s the what’s a day in their life, like, and you can’t necessarily find that out? Certainly not. In the construction industry.

Speaker 1 24:02
Absolutely. Never leave your office. And I am. I think I, in my early days of the career, I think I recognised that I didn’t obviously have the knowledge experience background, so I needed to go out and find it and asking people what what are you doing? Tell me what you’re doing right now. I don’t really understand. So you know, it could be a steel fixer, or, you know, just could be you know, anybody in any position. And people actually love telling you what they do. Because actually, they’re quite proud of their job and the contribution that they make. And, you know, I just Just remember speaking to carpenters and electricians and just saying what your what you’re doing at the moment because I obviously, this isn’t anything that I’m familiar with day in, day out. And they were just really proud. But being able to sort of just ask those questions and just get a bit of an insight gave you real sort of like knowledge and understanding of whether it was a project we were building or we were putting together some you know, components or whatever it was, but yeah, really good. And people love talking about what they do. So I never felt bad for sort of saying look, I’ve got like a few questions. Yeah, okay. People like yeah, no That’s great. Ask away. And, you know, I get people say to me, God, you asked a lot of questions. And I do, I do need to probably cut down on the questions that I asked, because I’ve got all I need to know about this. And this will maybe ask one question at a time, right? They’ll want to know, but Question one, two, and three, all in one go, please. And I’ve learned over the years to just give people space to answer the question in the first place. But yeah, I think just being interested in, in the areas that you work in the organisation, even the industry, yeah, just gives you great insight into, you know, what we can achieve collectively, either as a business or as a team or as an industry to be able to go right. And I think that’s that was that’s what sparked the, the creativity and the innovation when you just go right, we do this spatially, what about if we did this? And just looking at, you know, what we’re looking at, at the moment around? Did it digitally? I can’t even say the word now. Did it? There you go. That one, what do we say? Technology Enhanced well being because I can say that better. So. So yeah, looking at your analogy enhanced well being, you know, we would never have been looking at that three or four years ago. And now we’re looking at all these sorts of opportunities that enable us to look after our well being. So you know, we’re looking at how, because Microsoft are brilliant at what they do. And they’ve created this whole eat Viva insights, which is almost, you know, allowing people to take their own personal well being putting focus time in their diaries, and, you know, blocking meeting timeout, but actually reducing your meetings. So it says, you know, actually reduce your meeting, you know, you don’t need to be in there for two hours, just do it for half an hour. And actually, you can put time limits on your day. And it’s been great. I think, just showing people that it’s really simple stuff that you can do. And technology again, you know, it’s the way forward. So what can we do to be looking at the new, you know, innovative way in which we manage wellbeing and support people over the next 10 years? And yeah, there’s lots happening at the moment. So it’s really, really exciting and a great place to sort of be.

Adam Clarke 27:04
Let’s talk about mentoring. Have you been mentored in the past? And have you acted as a mentor for other people?

Speaker 1 27:11
Yes, I have actually think it’s great for development. So in my younger days, yes, I, I had mentors, actually. And we’re lucky enough in that the organisations that I’ve worked here, and there would be either a formal scheme, or there would be sort of a scheme that, you know, people would volunteer and say, Look, if you want to mentor I’m happy to take you through, you know, what you need to do, or, you know, if you’ve got a problem or a challenge, and you want to talk stuff through. So I would say, being a mentee was really great for me, because it meant a lot of the time I was paired up with somebody that was doing something completely different in the organisation, or even actually outside of the organisation. And that gave a different insight and a different way of thinking and looking at a problem if there was, you know, problem solving issue that we needed to look at. And just having that guidance and support was, I mean, it was amazing, because, you know, you’ve got somebody that you can call upon, whether it’s on the phone, whether you have a face to face meeting, you know, whether you just need a bit of advice, and they’re there to support you. And actually, they’re taking time to help you grow and develop. And so for them, you know, that investment is really important. So it was great from from that perspective. And I learned so much from my mentors, because they came from different backgrounds, different levels of the organisation, some were sort of like private organisations, sort of small businesses, larger businesses, finance, I had a mentor a few years ago, who was from a finance background, I was like, What am I going to do with a finance person? Banking? And I was like, you know, I’m in construction. They’re in banking, this is not, you know, and actually, it was one of the best experiences because he thought in a completely different way. And actually, his his creativity, and the way he would look at problem solving was just like really different to mine. And he just brought a different dynamic to our conversations. And actually, he was really great at looking at, well, where do you want to go in the next five years? What’s your plan? What’s your development, you know, what you’re doing? And, you know, what do you want to achieve? And so he would really push me and actually did push me quite hard. Sometimes I just feel like, Oh, I can’t do this. This is too challenging. So I think definitely, and actually being a mentor as well, it’s been great to be able to mentor other people in the business to just sort of look at what is it they want from their career, you know, if they need to just discuss things that are happening on the job, you know, their challenges that they need some help with, just actually the whole piece, you know, around long term career development, but also immediate problem challenges or issues that they just didn’t, I don’t know where to go with that. I’m going to speak to my mentor, see what they think. So if anyone gets the opportunity to be a mentee or a mentor, then I would grab it with both hands because the experiences on both sides have have really helped shape me and have got me to where I am now.

Adam Clarke 29:56
Couldn’t couldn’t agree more with that. As you’ve progressed throughout your career, you have obviously ended up in situations where you’ve had to, you know, deliver things that are under pressure timescales, you’ve had to be in front of senior senior people, how have you developed develop yourself over time to be more comfortable in those kinds of situations? Because quite often, you know, we are our own worst enemies when we, you know, we naturally overthink naturally overthink situations, which actually aren’t, aren’t as bad as we think they are. And when we’ve kind of got the other side of the situation we look back on, it wasn’t as bad as we do. But, you know, how have you found that experience over over over time?

Speaker 1 30:35
Yeah. And so I think, you know, in my early career, I mean, I was always very nervous and quite anxious about delivering a presentation, or even if it was in front of a small group of people and putting myself out there, because you just feel very vulnerable, don’t you just start right? I’ve got to make, I don’t want to look foolish, I don’t want to fail, I want to, you know, come across really, professionally, and I want to succeed, and I want to get the answers that we’re looking for when he guess at the end of this, if it was a, an approval for something. So for me, it was about great preparation, but having time to prepare and being organised. So and that’s just the way I am anyway, as an as an individual. So having time to prepare, know what I need to deliver, what’s the message, whether it was preparing materials that I needed to do, and then just practising it putting myself out there. So it would feel really uncomfortable in the early days and just go and look, I know, it’s going to be hard. And it’s going to feel quite nerve wracking, but just do it. Because actually, it will be just fine. And as you said, I don’t actually after you’ve done it, whether it’s a presentation or sales pitch, or whatever it was, you go, Oh, that was never, that wasn’t as bad as I thought it was gonna be. And the more practice and experience that I’ve had over the years, I’ve just become, you know, more comfortable with that. I would say definitely, you know, going back to the question, preparation and organisation is key. And just, you know, saying, look, it’s going to feel uncomfortable, but that’s okay. Because actually, that means you care enough for it to mean something to you. And you’re passionate about what you’re doing. So having a little bit of anxiety or, you know, being nervous about something is a good thing. And you can really use that and know that you’ll get through it, and it will be fine. At the end of it, you’ll look back and that presentation or, you know, speech at a conference will will be okay.

Adam Clarke 32:15
Yeah, I think harnessing harnessing your anxiety in a positive way is really important. I think it is. If you’re looking at it, because you because you care. That’s That’s great.

Speaker 1 32:25
Because I think as well, most people won’t know how you’re feeling inside you might be like really nervous and scared and but actually on the outside? And how many times have you had feedback on a presentation or something? Or, you know, you’ve done an interview and you’re like, Oh, God, I don’t know how that’s gone. And people go, Oh, that was really good. And you’re like, really, because in my head, it was not that, you know, it wasn’t like that it was like this, and but actually to the outside world world, those fears and anxieties on obvious and it’s just stuff in your own head and what’s going on for you that you’re hearing, you’re not actually seeing really what’s happening. So. But when things go wrong in the workplace, it’s like in your younger days, you know, you’re like, oh, you know, I’m not sure how to manage this and how to deal with it. And sometimes, you know, yeah, my chimp would get the best of me. And I’ve learned over the years to manage that to just go okay, in that environment, you need to be thinking about how you manage that let the human part of your brain take over, you know, look at the rational part, rather than the emotional part that you’re that you’re feeling right now. And actually, you know, even now, today, you know, I have conversations with my coach saying that this has happened, and I’m feeling really like my Chimp is ready to jump out of the cage, but and just being able to talk it through and go, right, okay. What’s the challenge that we’re trying to deal with here? What’s the problem we’re trying to solve? Okay, let’s put the emotions to one side. And that’s hard sometimes. But you know, I don’t think I ever really can be, I don’t think you’ll ever get to a point where just go right, I’ve got it all covered. Everything is sorted. You know, it’s just constant all the time. So I think you always need to be developing practising learning how to manage all those different things that go on when you’re Yeah. When you’re, you know, building and still in your career.

Adam Clarke 33:55
So going back to, when you’ve had those opportunities to do your preparation, and then get in front of executive teams, where you may be trying to either ask for resource to explore something further, or actually, you’ve, you’ve put a case together and you’re now trying to sound out there. Is there something that we can we can pursue? How do you, how do you find yourself when you’re in those situations, trying to kind of get the best out of it? Do you have any kind of tips, any kind of strategies that you developed over over time, and equally, any things where you thought, Oh, I didn’t work? Better think about that. Again.

Speaker 1 34:35
One of the things that again, one of my bosses in my younger days, taught me was actually just speak to the decision makers beforehand, on the just in a, you know, either a 510 minute conversation, it could just be that sure you’re at the coffee machine or whatever, and you go I’ve had a really good idea about, you know, developing a new, I don’t know, could be a new programme for this part of the business that’s going to drive this level of efficiency and, but actually we need some investment. In technology or new software package, whatever it might be, or you know, in the construction industry, it might be that we need resource because we’re looking at, you know, exploring this part of the business, but we need some someone that’s going to manage it. And it’s going to deliver this level of value, it’s actually looking at the key stakeholders that are going to make the decision. And going right. Okay, so if you’re dealing with a finance person, what are their drivers? What is it, they’re going to want to see? If you’re dealing with an engineer, you know, what’s the data that they’re going to want to see? What’s the value that they’re going to get from this project? You know, so just actually really looking at it from the different people’s perspective and saying, what are the key drivers? And have you delivered on each one of those, and I would probably go out and speak to them individually before either presenting in a room full of people or submitting a paper to the board to look at just to say, right, what are the key things here that you need? We’re looking at putting this together the proposal, so I want you to have a read of it? What are the key things for you that you’d like to see to make sure that, you know, it addresses what you’d want? And I think just being able to do that has helped massively over the years, and just being able to say, right, key stakeholders, what do they need from this? What are the benefits for them, so and then also, as a collective, you know, if it’s a leadership team, you know, obviously delivering sort of value for the organisation overall,

Adam Clarke 36:20
when you’ve got your business case accepted, and you’re going to start a programme moving forward, especially in the world of you know, well being, safety, etc. Changes, obviously, something that not everybody embraces, or gets on board with, if you haven’t got the right culture for for that, trying to get great ideas that can end up falling flat, because people haven’t thought enough about how they’re going to implement it and deal with the common barriers that you get with with change. You’ve experienced this now over over your career. And any tips, any thoughts on how you can kind of avoid, avoid obvious failure? And, and hit success more often?

Speaker 1 37:05
Yeah, I mean, I would say it’s all in the design and the planning, if I’m honest, I don’t I’m I just remember over the years is like, actually, you’re right, as humans, naturally, we’re not good with change, because it’s like, well, hold on a minute, this working okay, like this? Why are we changing it? What what’s going on? And actually, you’re asking people to adopt something that they’re not familiar with, maybe, and that can be uncomfortable for people. So I think designing so whether you’re implementing behavioural change programme, safety programme, you know, well being, you know, approach, it’s around being able to design something that’s addressing the meet the needs of most of the people, you know, you can’t please all the people all the time, so you’re gonna have to go with, you know, what’s the, you know, answer the question, and what’s the problem we’re trying to solve, and then actually design a programme or a plan that details that and actually organising at each stage, whether it’s, you know, every 12 months, this is the communication plan. So how we can engage with our people, tell them everything that’s going on, you know, if people feel informed, and they feel like they’re part of the discussion and the communication that’s going on, then you’re likely to get them to come along with you. On the journey, if they feel like they’ve kept they’ve been kept in the dark, or they’re not having their answers or questions answered, then you know, that’s when you get, you know, people that you know, are finding it difficult. And when you get resistance. And just being really clear, you know, just having a because you can’t always have everything detailed and planned out. Because there’s some things that you can’t, you can’t do. But just having a sense of look, this is a five year plan, it’s going to look something like this every 12 months, this is what we’re going to be delivering, these are the outputs, this is the communication plan that we’re going to be following. So you know, and actually be really detailed about that every month, we’re going to have an opportunity for people to ask questions to either the board or the senior leadership team, people can have, you know, post questions in our inboxes, an inbox for people to email, you know, and obviously, as we develop this phase of the programme people be involved with, they’ve got an opportunity to change some of that if they need to. So actually just detailing what that’s going to look like in as much detail as possible. And having great communication framework that supports that is key, because what we need is people to be able to feel that they’ve got a contribution to make in shaping what’s going on in the business. But also, if there’s something that they’re concerned about that they can raise it as well. So they might be worried about their job, they might be worried that it’s going to impact their team or something like that, being able to be open about those discussions and actually just say, Look, no question is the wrong question or a silly question. You know, just ask it and, and, you know, we might not have the answer there. And then but we’ll come up with a solution that will hopefully help everybody.

Adam Clarke 39:41
Last question then for me before we wrap up today. Sure. This might be a difficult one for for you. But can you think of or has there been kind of a highlight or a standout moment in your in your career with something that you’ve you’ve delivered or a moment that you’re in we think wow, you know, reflected on thinking that was brilliant. and how lucky am I to have been able to do this?

Speaker 1 40:03
Oh, good. There’s quite a few actually, I don’t mean, it’s really difficult to sort of just pick one or two, I think, can I have like two or three things? Is that right? Yeah. I think actually, you know, what the opportunity to leave the incident and injury free programme for the organisation was a great opportunity in sort of designing something and implementing something from scratch, so blank sheet of paper, and just, you know, what, actually, it is either gonna go really well, or it’s gonna go really badly. But again, planning, organisation design, communication, all featured, and they ended up being a great programme. And obviously, there were other people that were involved in helping that. But I think the opportunity to do that, and it was great success. And it changed, it shifted the culture, we did see quite a big change. And I was really proud to be part of that sort of family. For me, it felt like a bit of a movement. And I was really proud to be part of that. The second thing I would say, that’s been, you know, we talked earlier on about recognition, and you said, you know, well, you know, you’ve obviously achieved all this stuff, and great, and I’m not great at doing that with looking back and going, Oh, we’ve done this. And that’s been great. And I do it for the team members, because it’s great to show appreciation and gratitude for others, right. But I never really reflect on what I’ve done personally. And in 2018, I was nominated, and I won health and well being Leader of the Year for the construction news awards in 2018. So the business has nominated me for that. And that was a great highlight for me, because actually, we have to look back on all the achievements and you know, what we, what we’ve done as a business, but also my contribution to that. And so that was great personal recognition for me, which was great. And,

Adam Clarke 41:41
and how did you find being in the spotlight?

Speaker 1 41:43
Not Well, yeah, it’s funny, isn’t it? Because I was I’m quite a outgoing person loves being around people. But actually, when it’s all on you, I’m like, oh, no, I’m not sure on really great in that space. It was lovely. It was great recognition, I was very proud. And it was a moment in my time that I will never forget to be fair. And I think just it just goes to show that actually, you know, when you’re passionate and you love what you do, other people do see that. And I think that was the thing for me, it was recognised by others. And that meant a hell of a lot to me. So. So that was and then I think now, you know, in the wellbeing space, having the opportunity to work with people like sports psychologists, you know, like Kate Goodger, who has brought new thinking and new ways of like working and looking at the energy and capacity management programmes that we run the mental health programmes, and just trying to push the boundaries all the time thinking what’s different, what’s new, what we got to be looking at, moving forward. So probably a lot there to cover Adam, because it’s really difficult to just say one, and I don’t know if that sort of answered the question,

Adam Clarke 42:42
or No, I know, this is a difficult one to it’s a difficult one to ask, I think you’ve picked out some great, you know, some great moments that you’ve picked out, you know, you have been able to recognise things that, you know, you’ve, you’ve done and I I’m with you I find it difficult at times, when people you know, praise me, like, oh, no, I like giving praise out to other to other people. But you know, equally you’ve picked the things there which fully link back to your purpose around helping people you know, you’ve got a programme that you you delivered. And you know, right at the beginning of the podcast you said about, you have to think about that opportunity for a couple of days, and just that, that there could have been a fork in the road moment, because you could have gone down the other path and not done that. And then who knows where you would be now but you know, you went for it. And like I said, it’s when you’re taking on something that’s never been done before. There’s a lot about planning you other people or other people around you. And then if we fast forward to right where you are now you get to look at what’s next. And like say I love the idea of pushing pushing boundaries and innovation here because mental health is an well being is huge. And there are so many things that we probably need to do that we haven’t even thought about now. But that’s what you get to do. And you know, you’re you’re interacting with people that you perhaps never thought that you that you would listening to things you think, oh my God, how can I take that? How can take that? How can I take that? To drive things forward? And you know, you mentioned you’ve mentioned about energy energy a number of times through through here. How great is that, that you get to get to be energised in doing that. And if you’re doing something that you love, for the most part, why would you not want to carry on carry on doing that? Because you can see the impact that it has. So yeah, really, really good stuff.

Speaker 1 44:28
I’ve been fortunate as well. I think working with some great people that are equally passionate about, you know, whether it’s my team at the moment, you know, that they’re great because they are passionate, they’re, you know, creative, and they bring a different set of strengths to me. So actually, we really complement each other in the sense of actually when we’re together. We we think in different ways, but we bring different things to the table. So it’s great because just you know, when you’re in the room with us, we’re like, oh my god, we innovative, creative, we’re dynamic. We’re all these things collectively because you Don’t just do it on your own. But those, you know, having having the opportunity to work with some great people over my career as well as has made a massive difference to, you know, what we’ve achieved, but also how much I’ve enjoyed the experience. So, yeah, so grateful for that. And like I said, some great bosses and mentors as well along the way.

Adam Clarke 45:18
And thank you so much for taking the time out to talk to me that it’s been a fascinating, fascinating chat. And yes, so many interesting parts of your, of your career and the way that you’ve taken things forward and they will help. Other people will be inspired by when they when they listen to that. So thank you so much for taking the time out today. It’s been great. Thank

Speaker 1 45:36
you, Adam. Thanks for the invitation. It’s been great doing the podcast with you. I really enjoyed it. So thank you.

Adam Clarke 45:42
Thanks so much for listening to risk sleep repeat. If you’d like to appear on the show. If there’s a topic you’d like to discuss, or if you want to let us know your thoughts, please do so using the hashtag risk sleep, repeat or get in touch via our website at praxis42.com