Webinar: Is a health and safety career right for you?

00:03

Welcome, everybody. And thank you for joining our webinar in collaboration with Shirley Parsons. And today we’re asking, Does your personality suit HSE? And what should you be earning? I’m your host Tracy Seward from Praxis42 to and today I’m joined by our expert panellists. And we’ve got with us today, Jay Beccaria, Director of HSE, and risk management at visa. Adam Clark, Managing Director of consulting at practice 42. Shona Patterson, Director of insight at Shirley Parsons, and Mike Ellingham, Head of Marketing at Shirley Parsons. And today, our panel of HSE leaders will be discussing the key personality drivers needed in a modern HSE role. Shona from Shirley Parsons will share her insight from personality and aspiration reports of hundreds of successful HSE professionals, Mike is going to be sharing data from the 2020 to surely Parsons HSE cue salary report to show what an average earnings are in each sector, and each job responsibility level, and what to expect from salary increases in the future. So just a couple of things, your mics will be muted, but there are buttons at the top of your screen where you can ask questions, which will be addressed in the q&a session at the end of the webinar. And we also have some downloads related to the event, and you’ll be able to share the event on social media. And if you do want to send in a question during the webinar, we will do our best to get to it. But if we don’t have time to answer all of the questions, they will be answered and put up on our resources pages after today’s session. A recording of today’s webinar is going to be available after the event and a link will be sent to everyone who signed up. So can we start off with Jay explaining your three hats principle, please.

01:55

So hi, everyone, and thank you for joining the webinar. So basically, the three hat principle is very simple. And it’s the type of things that you have to bear in mind when doing your job or being a health and safety professional. The first is that your auditor hat, which is your subject matter expertise. And so this is where you specialise in whether that’s health and safety CAUTI quality environmental. The second hat is the trusted advisor. And this is where you think beyond health and safety. And this is where you become business minded, solution driven, and are willing to learn a lot more than safety. So this is working with stakeholders with finance, operations, HR and so on. And finally, the third hat is your influencer. And this is very much down to your personal brand, your own development, where you want to go your integrity and values. Now the trick is being able to switch between each hat. In different situations, for example, you may be doing an accident investigation, and you have to have the auditor. However, through that process, you may find a number of solutions that needs to be applied to the business. In order for you to apply or think of the corrective solution, you need to put your advisor hat on and work with the stakeholders around you. So as you would have more information about business operations know a better understanding of finance, your solutions are more practical, and they’re able to be pitched at higher levels or lower levels across the business. And finally, when it comes to who you are as a person, let’s say you investigate the accidents, you found some solutions. It’s that how you react towards them and how you lead. So how would you leave that example? And that’s down to your personal brand and your integrities and values that matter most? So in theory, it’s all those personalities put together across three simple hats and being self aware, knowing when to switch between them.

03:56

Thank you. You say, Adam, that that’s the same within the consultancy business?

04:03

Yeah, I would, I’d absolutely agree with what Jay said it’s really important for you to be thinking situationally. And there are times where you need to be communicating in a way with the with the right audience, it may well be for example, in consultancy, when we’re trying to work with a new client, it’s really about understanding where they currently are in their in their journey and that might be it kind of a corporate level. And then when some of the team are going in and doing some more tactical based work is really trying to help those people who they’re working with perhaps when they’re when they’re auditing to understand you know, why why are we doing all of this what we’re trying to, to get out of it because because often things like you know audits people kind of feel that’s quite quite can be quite negative term at times because I think like what actually you’re, you’re going to be going through my dirty laundry and then looking for looking for things that caught that aren’t quite right. It’s it’s about how you how you frame it. And then certainly when you’re Looking at the end of it, you know, really trying to explain what what you what you found, and really communicate and level that people people understand you nothing frustrates me more than when I see health and safety professionals throwing legislative jargon at people who have no, you know, no concept of doesn’t doesn’t help us. So it’s really love the idea and that thinking of what, what am I here to do? And how can I be most effective in what I’m trying to achieve?

05:27

And would you say then that you there is a certain personality type? That’s right. For somebody who might succeed in that kind of consultancy role in terms of would you need to be a certain kind of person to to be able to deliver that information, maybe in the right way for it to be learned?

05:46

Well, I don’t I don’t think that necessarily every start being that being that person. Yeah. When we’re when we’re looking at taking new people on certainly a consultancy is really trying to understand where their baseline sits so that we can, you know, understand what what is it that they are currently what are they currently get? And where, where are the gaps? I think that’s, that’s kind of critical to people being able to grow and develop, you know, when we’re, when we’re starting an interview, it’s asking those kind of questions, not necessarily always competency based, but it’s, you know, here’s it, here’s a scenario. And if you were working with this type of client, give me an understanding of how you would approach it. And then the kind of induction process into being Consultants is then about shadowing, and making sure that that’s, you know, they can fit into that style. And, and sometimes, you know, one of the most important questions to ask people is, you know, how do you handle critical feedback, because, you know, it’s sometimes it feels like an attack or attack on you. But it actually is, it’s so important to your growth that you point it out. And I know at times the giving, giving feedback to people can feel a little bit uncomfortable. It’s like almost saying, well, or didn’t quite like how you do that. But again, it’s all about how you how you frame it, I generally find me saying to people, Hey, can we just go through some observations of what I’ve, what I’ve seen, this is what I observed, tell me what you think about it, so that they reflect it back to you, it can be more far more far more positive. So there’s always when communicating options where somebody can feel good about the outcome of it, or they can actually feel really bad about the outcome, just just on how you how you communicate,

07:19

and understand you’ve done some analysis into personality traits in HSC. Professionals. And yeah, what were the most common types coming out.

07:31

And so I think firstly, kind of what Adam said is that everyone starts on a baseline, which is kind of your inbuilt kind of personality traits. But personality traits, although they can still be your kind of dominant traits doesn’t mean that you can’t have behaviours or actions outside of those personality traits in order to get the outcomes that you want. And I think also you need to look at the different sectors that you’re in the stakeholders that you’re engaging with, because you will, the best kind of health and safety people I think, are kind of chameleons, they’re able to kind of adapt according to the stakeholder that they’re dealing with. And particularly in consultancy, when you’ve got so many different clients, that is probably one of the keys that ability to adapt. But in order to adapt, you need to understand where’s your baseline where you’re starting from, and that kind of self awareness is really key. And I think sometimes we personality profiling, there’s kind of a, you might get the report and think of that’s not that’s not me, or, you know, there’s no negative kind of personality traits, but having that understanding, and then knowing when to use that, or when to maybe amend your behaviours accordingly. And so yeah, we did data validation study across a cross sector of existing teams to understand what were those common traits that were in high performing candidates. And those four traits that we had were goal orientated, and being having a balance in assertiveness, so not being overly forceful or dominant, but able to be direct when you need to be which is key in health and safety, and conscientiousness, they’ve been self disciplined and dependable, and then openness. So that’s about that’s not about being kind of open and honest. It’s about being creative, and experimental, and enjoying change and embracing change, because you are a function that’s leading change within a business, and whether that’s kind of culturally, or the parts around the business. So those were the four traits that we came up with. But as I said, even if they aren’t your kind of dominant traits, it’s about looking at behaviours and actions that can, in certain situations, bring more of those personality traits out.

09:53

That’s a that’s a really good point. I think, because we’re and Jay, I wonder if you resonate with me, we’re kind of a solution by based service for the most part, we’re going in and helping different parts of the business. You know, we’re not, we shouldn’t be there to just go and do it for them. It’s about helping, first and foremost understanding what they do. And I think a really good starting point for that is to be really hey, look, here’s who I am. Can you just tell me what you you know what you get up to, rather than, you know, I’ve seen it on the other side, but someone comes in you, you pretend you know what they already do. And you try and tell them how to how to do things. And you know, we know how well that that goes. So being not being afraid to go and ask you some really open questions. And like, you’re the expert here, I’m bringing some health and safety knowledge. But you know, this is yours to Why don’t you that’s a such an such an important point. And Trey, would you agree, Jay?

10:46

Yes. So I see it as a business unit. So health and safety does not generate revenue. So I feel consultancies is slightly different. But the aim of the game is, if you look all the functions across the business, the support functions don’t normally generate revenue, there are cost. So whatever I say, has to generate some form of value back into the business. Now if I find a an element where I need to require cost, the solution I provide not just takes the cost, but adds value back into the business for them to grow. And that’s what I see the personality trait about being open mindedness in therefore. So you’re not a generating revenue function, but your innovative and value add function, therefore, everything you say does have a cost. But it’s got to be able to increase the value for them to reinvest back in. And I think that’s the main thing that I said from that point. So those personality traits are really important. Because, you know, you could always let’s say, you may outsource your function to a consultancy. Great. But wouldn’t it be fantastic when a consultancy, comes back to you and says, These are the faults or these are the input areas of improvements we’ve found? And guess what, this is the bottom line, this is an amateur or cost you but in the long term, you will also save this and we’ve added this much value back in terms of engagement. And so one of the I think that’s really critical to those personalities.

12:11

Yeah, definitely, I think that commercial awareness, particularly kind of understanding the bigger picture, and that’s kind of does relate to the openness train as well is that you’re not kind of to tunnel vision that you see the bigger impact that those decisions is going to make and be commercially minded when you’re looking at solutions for clients.

12:33

And I think often, you know, I feel for people in safety, because they often don’t get exposed to that it has to go the other way. You, you have to be the one saying, well, actually, I don’t really perhaps understand a lot about finance, go and ask somebody in finance, Can I Can you spare a couple of hours of time to explain to me how this work, or find someone in department who’s you know, head of operations and go and say, you know, explain to me your challenges, what what are the things that you know, that are causing you pain? And then how can I understand that better? Because that will make you more effective? Yeah,

13:04

I’ve always Yeah,

13:05

100%, the best value add, you could add to any health and safety professional, is by stepping out of the profession, or learning something new. And the reasons why I say that is the techniques we build when it comes to process, procedure policy, and root cause analysis. All of those are tools that can be applied in any function across the business, whether it’s HR, for investigation requirements, whether its operations to recreate new procedures and operating models, there’s so much more out there than health and safety. And by stepping up by 10 15% of your time, you bring back a wealth, and I mean a wealth of knowledge, because selling your solutions will be just as easy.

13:47

Unfortunately, traditionally, we, you know, health and safety professionals when it comes to where they’re going to spend their time their lifelong learning. It’s it’s more health and safety. So absolutely, Chase, try and do something that’s a bit side a bit sideways, that will add more value, there’s only so much more health and safety that’s going to make you effective within a within within a business, you know, go and go and try something different.

14:09

And then that goes back, actually to Jay, your three hats, and someone wearing those three hats successfully. And undertaking those three roles and kind of that part, that’s all part of the role. And

14:25

so I think the perfect example there is there’s three hats, right? Only one of them’s actually health and safety. The other two are more business minded solution thinking and the third one is who you are your brand new integrity. So each one had a 33.3% rating you muster the first day 3.3% But chances of you delivered that successfully is the other 66% you see and that’s what I think that’s really important on that on that front.

14:57

Yeah, At Mike, can we move on to your survey? About key motivation factors? Oh, you’re on? You’re on mute.

15:15

You know what I knew I was gonna do that. Yeah, actually, I just want to pick up on what Jay was talking about. And one of the things that I haven’t got a slide about, but one of the key factors, so we surveyed, it was over 1200 people, health and safety professionals in the UK, about work about what makes them motivated what they’re interested in, and about their salaries too. One of the questions we asked them how satisfied were there in their current role between zero and 10. And the average was around seven, six and a half to seven. So it’s not too bad, but then we tried to analyse, okay, what makes you most unsatisfied or dissatisfied, and the number one factor was a lack of development, a lack of progression within their role. So I think when we’re thinking about, you know, motivations and aspirations within health and safety, I think that’s the key one that people find the most dissatisfaction with is they don’t feel that they’re progressing and learning new things. So I think that was the one thing that the survey really hammered through, was that actually, it’s tough. And I know smaller companies, when you got one or two health and safety positions, it’s difficult to provide that development opportunity. But as Jay was saying, it’s not all about health and safety. It’s about learning other bits of the business and being more of a rounded professional. So the more that companies can build in opportunities for their health and safety professionals to learn and develop personal skills, technical skills and other skills, I think was a key thing that struck me from asking people. So I don’t know how whether J or add him you see that, you know, are your people looking for development? How do you actually make sure you can actually offer development opportunities for people that work for you?

17:03

So I think it’s a really, it’s a really tricky one. Why? Because part of me thinks that every good business should invest in people, you know, that’s a proven good return on investment, if you invest in your people. However, time security, you’re right there, it can be difficult to provide people development opportunities. So I guess what I would say certainly reflecting back on my career is that you certainly said, I’ve got to take ownership of it yourself. If you want development opportunities, you’ve got to fight for it, you know, it’s I want to progress have an idea of where do you want to? Where do you want to go? What do you want to be, and then kind of work backwards for for that. So if you’re, if you’re keen, and you’re interested in you want opportunities, opportunities will come around? And it’s about well, actually, someone’s gonna think of me when that opportunity arises. Because I’ve you know, I’ve expressed in an interest and, you know, it goes the other way, I’ve, you know, we’ve provided opportunities to people, and sometimes people don’t, don’t want anything, anything else. So it’s really important that you do invest in people, but equally, you know, it’s your own, it’s your own life, it’s Rotary, you’ve gotta gotta want it.

18:05

Yeah, I agree with Adam, nothing. The first time I met the Shirley Parsons lot, when I started with my first graduate role, it was very much you create your own destiny. It was it was clearly set like that. So Shona gave us one of the first roles in the business when the industry and it’s very much Well, we’re here to support you. But it’s up to you for what you do within that business. And then there was the regular checking in so I think that, obviously, have aspirations, drive them hard. But along with just doing it by yourself, seek out the correct support, you need that support network out there, I’ve always been a big fan of having that support network, because it’s not always about, let’s say, getting experienced in non safety, it’s also about building exposure in that area, or having education, and then that will then slowly help you get that experience. So it’s not always about my roles changing, it can be just my mindsets changing to educate myself, or I could be attending a financial social event, because I just want to mix a nimble with people, people that do non safety things. And that’s all back to that support network you got. I

19:11

think, just just to add to that, when we’re looking at, you know, lifelong learning, if you can find yourself a coach or a mentor, and that doesn’t necessarily have to be in your organisation, you I think we’re, we’re fortunate in the, in our industry that people are actually really keen to give give their time away to help bring people in so you know, if you attend your local IOSH meetings, etc, there are almost certainly going to be someone there who can give you good advice and will take some time out to help set you know, set you in the right direction.

19:45

Yeah, definitely I would advise it being somebody that is outside your company because I think they they kind of see your company differently than maybe someone internally because they they are in the business, having some and having a mentor that’s outside your business that can challenge you more on what the functions within your business will give you more to go back into the business with. And you’re right as in like, you know, it will be part of other people, leaders within the sector, it will be part of their aspirations that they want to mentor the next generation. So, you know, that will be one of their key aspirations. So take advantage of that and approaching people. Yeah, I think it’s a great way to learn. And actions,

20:33

we just have a little look, Mike, at your slides now have what is important to HSC Q professionals? And then would you mind talking us through those sort of key motivation factors, obviously, apart from the training and development?

20:50

Yeah, exactly. Great. Great. So we very much ask people, so if you’re looking for a new position, you’re looking for your next position, what’s the most important factors, what are you going to be looking for. And you see that key ones are very, very important, nearly 62% said, it’s very important that culture and importance of HSC Q, within that company I’m joining, I think people are really looking for something to be meaningful in their roles. And to actually the HSC Q is treated not as just a tick box exercise, but something that’s very important. So the second one was management style. And you can’t underestimate the importance of that the manager in your job is to make sure that management style ties in with you. But then basic salary was the third most important factor. And Jay and I are having a chat about this a week ago. And it’s one of those things where salary, you know, a lot of employers don’t want people that are pushy about salary, but the cost of living, everything’s going up at the moment. And you saw on the right hand side of this slide, actually, when we just analyse people that weren’t in management positions, so this survey was 1200 people, there was directors, there was managers, heads of departments and advisors, when you just took the advisor level people basic salary was a number one factor, or when they’re considering a new position, that actually was their most important one followed by flexible working, and then work content. So while we’re talking about personalities, and while we’re talking about, you know, what makes people good in their roles, same time, you have to realise that people need to be rewarded adequately to make sure that they actually, you know, feel fulfilled in their role and make sure that they’re there and feel that they’ve got the right, a job satisfaction and being rewarded adequately.

22:43

With the salaries then Mike, if it is key, what are the average salaries within HSE? You know, what should we be looking at what levels?

22:53

I’m glad you asked me that Tracy. So if you move on to the next slide, we then, so this was the average salary, so we split people by their different level of responsibility. So the average salary earned by a director 117,000, head of department, 72, Anisha, 53, team leader, 45, and no area of responsibility around just under 39. These are average. So there was a big range. I mean, there was a directors ranging, you know, up into the several 100,000 pounds. And, you know, there were people just on entry level salaries, too. So these are averages. So that’s the only thing that can stress. But if you’re looking to benchmark yourself, you know, those are averages. What was notable, though, we obviously did the survey in 2021, as well, all of the averages have gone up in a year. So there was definitely salary increases happening in the market. Naturally, if you look on, is it too late? No, I tell you what, I’ve jumped to that one, I’ll come back to what salary increases were. But within the survey as well, if you jump on to the next slide, as you said, we not only analysed by responsibility, we actually analysed by what sector the person was working in. So Adam, you guys there and consultancy, you actually have the highest average salary, followed by people working construction and energy down to health care. Now, obviously, it all depends on who’s actually completing the survey. We’re aware of that, but that was what our data said. So those were the sectors that were people were working in. And this is the average this is just just non in management people. This doesn’t include directors has department or managers this is just people without areas responsibility, just to give a feeling for what the average salaries are across the different sectors.

24:55

Sorry, Mike, I didn’t mean to cut in I was just gonna say there’s obviously a lot of pressure on set raise with the cost of living prices, everything going up. And I just kind of wondered if we could throw it open to the whole panel and ask how your individual organisations are dealing with those pressures on, on potentially increasing salaries to be in line with inflation.

25:20

So I think so. So I think it really depends on the type of organisation you work for to start with. And the size makes a big difference. So what kind of shocked me was, you look at utilities and manufacturing, they tend to be higher risk on there yet, they’re showing the lowest salaries, to my knowledge on that slide deck. So salaries is one thing. Benefits is something you shouldn’t discount. I’ve always believed, I think working for the right company, the benefits tend to outweigh the salary in terms of, you know, if you’re looking at a sprinter and a marathon runner, if you really want to develop your career, and you’re in there for the long run, and I say long run meaning probably five years or more, rather than short, Sprint’s of two and a half to three years, then yeah, if you’re going in for short run, salary is important. But if you’re in there for the long term and the development plans there, then yeah, benefits can really, really outweigh the salary. I know other companies, I’m not saying ours directly, but some companies offer equity or golden handshakes, retainers, and so all of those items are there, they’re not directly in your pocket, and I completely appreciate that. But for the long term, they can be there, and the counsellor for. So I think when it comes to visa, we analyse the market, we look at what’s going on across our competitors. But most importantly, we’re looking for that right person. Because ultimately, if the personality fits, then we can always leverage up the benefits. And in a society today, where cost of living is very difficult. government organisations such as the NHS and so on and under strain, things like private health, and all that do come in very handy depending on your life situation, or where you’re on those things are really, really part of the toolkit to help you on that matter.

27:09

So it’s about sort of bespoken those benefits then to the individual employee, rather than just having an across the board, because I guess different things are important for different people at different times in their journey. Yeah, so pretty good. All right. Gotcha,

27:25

I think is about obviously, we’ve spoken about, like career aspirations. But I think it’s also good to understand their personal aspirations as well, that they’re not mutually exclusive from each other. And I think if you can, if you are able to, within a business, create a package that helps them to achieve both their personal and their career goals, then you’re going to have a more engaged employee and somebody and a feeling that you care about them as an individual. Now, I know that’s maybe not realistic in, in every business, but I think we have to be more creative, we can’t keep increasing salaries, we’ve seen a huge increase in salaries, through counter offers through, you know, just to attract people. And they’re not always in line with the competency level. And we can’t keep increasing it and the market will plateau at one point, and then those people that have those increased salaries are going to struggle to move on to another business. So I think, yeah, that kind of being a bit more creative, I think is is key to, you know, retaining and attracting people as well. Thanks, Adam.

28:37

Okay, I think, now leads me nicely into my point, in terms of what’s been picked up so far, retention strategy should be different for everybody. It’s about understanding what you know, what motivates individuals and trying to tailor something to them. So, so shown us point where we’ve got a market at the moment where you can get people who’ve only got a couple of couple of years experience who are, you know, commanding, equivalent salaries of people who’ve been in seven, eight years in now, for those people who are taking those jobs might seem like Well, that’s, that’s, that’s great. But you then might find immediately that you’re, you’re struggling because you’ve, you’ve come in, and you’re not quite at that, at that level. And once you’re there going, you know, going backwards might be quite, quite a challenge and, and for the industry, the more that we take on people who aren’t experienced, it’s not it’s not good for us. The way we’re looking at it is really to bring more graduate level people in one of the areas that we particularly struggle with finding competent people is in is in fire. And it’s simply an area these days that we cannot compromise on, on competence. So what we we tried to do, which we’ve, we’ve done for most of our of our time, is to bring people in who are new and really thoroughly trained them so that they can they can do the job and we’re we’re happy. It’s always a gamble of even paying an inflated salary that you know somebody You know, in a CV in a few rounds of interviews is really deep, it’s really difficult to really know if they can actually cut it until you’ve actually invested quite a bit of time. And if you do invest a bit of time, then you realise Well, actually, this person isn’t what I expected, you know, you’ve expended a lot of a lot of energy. Whereas if we can, we can keep encouraging people at the, at the bottom end to come and work into our in our well, because a great to great sector to be in, and we can invest in invest in them, then we’ll have people to replace. So and also aren’t in line with what Jay was saying, I really think the non financial benefits, you know, having a great a great culture and, you know, good, good values. And a clear, clear vision, you know, helps helps people focus and it probably will help lower your, you know, your overall retention rates. And, and I suppose one question is general might want to pick this up, but think back to the salaries? Do we think the exposure that professionals that haven’t aged professionals had over the last couple of years in COVID? Because we had a lot of exposure? Do we think that hadn’t had any impact in? In what we’ve seen? Yeah, your mute shown?

31:14

Yeah, I think kind of COVID had a massive impact. I think. Maybe companies didn’t realise it. But their employees were watching them like a hawk. During COVID. How did they react? Did they match their values that they say they had, it was quite telling on what kind of culture you were within, and a business that maybe had been hidden before. And I think kind of the employer brand has never been so important. I think that that’s what companies if you want the best talent, that’s what you need really need to focus on. And obviously salary is part of that. But it’s more about the experience of working in that business and, and how that helps you reach your career personal aspirations that we’ve spoken about, you know, and that that is key to the attraction and also what you were saying, as I’m about kind of graduates, I think it’s a great, we want to bring more people into the sector. And whether it’s through recruiting graduates or using the Shea apprenticeship, some of the people that I’ve met that have done the sheer apprenticeship, they, they’re brilliant, and they’re going to be our future leaders. And we need to be bringing those people in. And I think it’s a great, yeah, great opportunity to look at not just technical ability, but going back to those personality traits, getting the right personality traits, you can teach the technical side.

32:37

So I think, I think it’s interesting this slide, because an Adam touched on it, businesses will be willing to invest quite a bit to be this overinflated salary market. But one thing I guess, when people are on this webinar, and I’ll cut straight to the chase is is you can’t blog your way. So ultimately, if you think you should know your worth to the best, you know, because if you go in into an interview, and you think the blog and extra 1015 grand come one year or two year, they will question that investment on you. And if that value is not generated by you, you will be going back to the job market looking for something 10 grand below. And I think we’re almost like, you know, the victims of armed crime here in that sense, because we’re creating a market where, okay, I completely appreciate we need at the end of the day, the money’s got to be in your wallet when the bank account to pay mortgages, bills and stuff like that. But if you think you could take advantage of this market feel free to be our guest. But ultimately, given taken a couple of years time, like Adam said, they will review it, they will question the value. And then they will go through the cuts because with an overinflated market goes, it goes round and round. And that’s what will happen. Along with the inflation rates that we’ve got, there will come a time where they’ll question that. And there’ll be a moment where consultancies, businesses grow. Because everyone’s outsourcing because they can’t trust the inflated market and what they’re getting for value. And then there’ll be times where they’re concise business drops, because then the salaries dropped. And a lot of people are bringing people in house. I think one thing from this is COVID was great, it put everyone on the radar, but you got to be mindful, it doesn’t mean it’s the platform, you jump on to try and lag an extra 510 grand here or there. Because code was just one short spread. There’s a lot more coming at us in the next five to 10 years that we’ve got to be mindful of and build resilience for.

34:31

And I think just just to add to that, Jay, you know, people should really do their do their homework, you know, if a company is willing to pay you seemingly a really inflated over market value is that does that company actually just have a high high turnover rate of staff are they getting you into them burn you burn you out? Because you know that that is a model that some organisations have so so do really do your do your homework and again, talk to talk surely Parsons.

35:00

How can employers that potentially have staff that are being enticed by these overinflated salary offers? How can they kind of keep their employees motivated and engaged in their business that they’re that they’re obviously currently working in?

35:20

So I think when we spoke about this last week, I asked my staff three simple questions. And normally I get the answer. If two of the three are no, then then I know I’ve got to do something. So one is, do you jet? Do you like working? Did you like your job? Yes, or No? Simple. There’s no ifs or buts? Do you like who you work for? So does the company and the value means something to you? And are you learning? This Yes, and if you’re not learning, then I know I have to put some education or some development down there. If you don’t like who you work for, it could be me or the business, and our cultures of values might not. And if they’re genuinely don’t like their job, then it’s time to move on or explore a different functionality. And I think if you start with those three questions, you generally then could put a plan around those Yes, or nurse?

36:09

Yeah, I think that’s a really great, great set of questions to ask. And, you know, sometimes, unfortunately, the best outcome is, well, if there’s, if there is no opportunity, and there isn’t the ability to fulfil those, then actually, it’s better for both if that person, you know, I hate the idea of holding people, people back, you know, just sometimes you have to kind of go out, push yourself outside of your comfort zone, because it may well be that you’ve, you’ve reached the peak of what you can achieve in the role that you’re that you’re doing. And really, if you want to get any better, you’ve got to go sideways or or upwards. And, you know, it’s really good to encourage people to do that. Now get on the flip side of that some people once they get to that top of their comfort zone, they’re quite content with with that. And if that’s if that’s where they’re content, and they’re able to, you know, maintain the quality of what they do and still, you know, carry on lifelong lifelong learning that then that’s, then that’s okay. But if people are leveraging other roles to try and move ahead, you got got to ask him. Ultimately, that’s that’s their decision to make. But it’s just trying to not kind of convince people to stay is that put it back to what? If you want to take that just be really clear, in your own mind? What do you want to get out of your your career, because it may well be that you know, going to a job with a higher flight salary, that might not be the right path for for you.

37:30

I think the key thing is you got to understand the motivations both work and personal was shown was mentioning, you know, the people that are in performing for your business, what makes them satisfied in that role? And actually, what’s their personal circumstances, make sure they’re actually getting satisfied and getting rewarded effectively? And you just got to make sure you’re monitoring that. And whether you do on a one to one basis? Or do you do actually your engagement, regular engagement surveys and polls, surveys to know how your employees are feeling. Employees just got to look after their most important, important asset at the moment, have a look after people understand what turns them on and understand what’s going to keep them performing and keep them working? Well for you. That’s the real key every employee needs to do. And we’re seeing an increased amount of businesses actually spending more time looking at retaining their workforce and making sure they have been performing in the right roles, which is great to see.

38:24

Yeah, I think when you’re looking at retention, you’re looking at, you know, there will be people that leave your business, because they’re like you say there is a time period where it’s time for them to move on to the next challenge. It’s reducing those bad levers, you want good levers that are you know, you’ve worked with them, you’ve taken them in part of their career journey, and then it’s time for them to so almost like you’re making that decision together in your support to them, those people will then talk about your business in a good light. So when we’re looking about that employer brand, so that will help you attract new people as well. So, you know, it’s accepting that people will lead the business, but make sure they’re good Levers as opposed to bad levers.

39:11

onto it, perhaps I think, a difficult question and again, to the whole panel, what attributes do you think HFC professionals will need in the future? If if they are even different?

39:30

Yeah, that’s a really, really good question. Tracy. I mean, the pandemic obviously has been, you know, an example of the the value that that HSE professionals can can add, you know, we all dealt with the same problem at the same time and it was how can the business adapt to the changes that are, you know, enforced? It might be that some a lot of organisations have thought about the practicalities of the work life balance. Those who hadn’t were thrown in at the same time. So it’s about how can we be part of the solution. And that’s understood, as we touched on earlier, understanding what the business business needs are. So for me, it’s as we’ve talked about a lot and linked right back to jays, three hats theory, it’s expanding your horizons outside of the, the HSE world so that you can add value to the organisation have a really good understanding of where the organisation is trying to go, what their, what their mission is, what their their objectives are. And the one constant that we know is that technology is moving on at a faster pace, and every anything else. And, you know, it’s be aware of what’s of what’s going on, you know, that there’s lots of lots of new technology, some things now we’ve got our, you know, for example, when I, when I started in the construction industry, you know, it was, it was ladders, ladders, ladders, and not so much use of things like towers, because they were a lot more expensive, you know, fast forward 20 years, and you know, things are a lot of things that are cheaper, and you’ve got to be the ones who are looking for what can be done. But also, it’s no good coming up to me with a business with no, I want to go and spend all this money on all these all this new gear without having thought about a business case, and then the numbers and having put some effort into it. So you’ve got to be able to do that side of it as well. So for me it’s keep keep pace with what’s going on with technology, and you know, look at outside of, you know, HSC for some skills that you might need, and that will probably help you succeed.

41:26

For me, I’m a big ambassador, this, I think, no tourists, I’m known in the industry to say this, go against the grain. Don’t be afraid to challenge period, this industry will get static, and it’s prescription based. For newcomers anywhere in your career, go against the grain, don’t be afraid of challenging the norm. Because that’s what will evolve, that will make the industry evolve, that will make you evolve. And most importantly, shake off any perceptions about a department that doesn’t generate revenue. So in order to create value, you’ve got to go against the grain, you’ve got to you’ve got to try different news, you’ve got to try different things out, do not always go with where the market goes, try going against that. Because if you are able to stand out from everyone else, the value is instantly there. Because that’s what you need in health and safety. You need to go against that grain and innovate. So personal attributes, and I know there’s a few people, I see that I mentor here. And it’s always saying to them, Well, why are you doing that? Don’t copy, paste go against the grain, where’s their personal brand that says I created this, I landed this. And it’s something fresh, innovative that adds value. So always go against the grain in our whole industry. Yeah, we don’t always jump on the bandwagon. So

42:39

no, I love that. Because the amount of times that you’ve been up in in a scenario where people are going on well, we do it this way. And I was like, well, well, why? And the answer is because we’ve always done it this way. Okay, so is it still relevant? Is it still valid? Because if the answer is no, then just do something else. You don’t have to just continue churning out things in the same way, just because that’s how it’s always done it. Just always ask yourself the question, you know, why is this still fit for purpose.

43:05

And that also applies to pharmaceuticals railway, I completely appreciate there’s a rigid framework. But that’s not stopping you bouncing around in every single one of those walls. Because it needs the bouncing around to challenge that. See, the framework will always be there. If you can’t change the blacks and whites keep moving within it, and you’ll find some grey, but you have to you have to go against the grain because, you know, it’s it’s such a competitive market, there’s so much out there. And like Adam said, if I put a pitch out to a consultancy, nine out of 10, they’re all the same, but the one that did something completely different or pitched in different way tends to win the business, even if they’re not health and safety experts, because the chances are, they’re thought of something slightly different, which we could then support and grow from that.

43:56

Yeah, and I think we’re starting to see that with our you know, when going back to what we found our dominant personality traits to be in higher performing candidates, it was high experimental, and creativity. So I think we’re starting to see that in the higher performing professionals within the sector, those that can be more creative and experimental. But I think another thing that being aware of also, which does come into that creative and experimental side is that our workforce landscape is going to change. We’ve got a new generation of people coming into the sector that want things instantly they want instant gratification. They don’t want to read long policies, and not sure many people do. But you know, we’ve got a whole new generation of people coming into the sector. And also we’ve got an ageing workforce as well. We’re going to be working longer than we ever have. So how do you communicate with with those two groups of people when and finding ways in which you can engage them and maintain that engagement I think will be key. I think we’re going to see a huge change in what our workforce looks like. Over the next few years.

45:03

Yeah, that’s a really interesting point. And because I think, you know, I don’t think anybody likes reading 3040 pages. Even the people who write them, like I like reading them, but it’s actually 50. Again, I go back to technology, you know, you think of the trends at the moment with, you know, tick tock, YouTube, Facebook, all these short, short videos that are this, you know, somewhere like 90 seconds to 180. It’s like people are currently taking bite sized chunks of things. So we’ve got to adapt to that. That’s the current style of how we want to want to get a message across and people want short and frequent, well, then go and go and do that. If you stick back to you know, death by death by PowerPoint, you know, it’s not going to get the message across. You know, we’ve got to, we’ve got to move with the move with the times and stay relevant.

45:46

Yeah, definitely.

45:50

Okay, so another potentially difficult question, I think you’re touched on it, then, again, to the panel, how do you think health and safety sector will change in the next five years? Get your crystal balls out everybody?

46:09

Well, I guess I’m gonna sound like a broken record here. I think that we’ve got to invest more in technology. I’ve certainly for the side of trying to be more paperless, I think, you know, when you’re certainly if you’re kind of organisations that have got, you know, 1000s, or 1000s, of different primitive premises, you know, for you to be able to have an understanding of what’s going on in life situation, and you’re investing in technology will really will really help. But what Mike Mason counted for that is, you know, really understand the businesses that you’re you’re working for, if you want to be an effective professional, you’ve got to understand your your business’s risk profile, and how and also your culture, if you want to get your messages out there, you’ve got to adapt to your organisation, not your organisation adapting to you. So I think that’s, that’s what we’re gonna see. And certainly from my consultancy side of things, we are trying to look at the environmental impact and what more things can utilise technology for remote based visits so that we can get more, be more be more efficient, and how can we explore explore that and I think from looking at innovation for the innovation piece, that’s, that’s where we’re, we’re heading and some of that has kick started in the during the pandemic when we haven’t been able to access access areas, and we still have managed to, to keep things going.

47:31

Yeah. Thanks, Adam. And, right, it’s Oh, thank you so much, everybody, for joining us today. And, Mike, Shona J, is there anything you wanted to add at the end there, I know, we’ve got one more slide to share from you, Mike, on your workforce insight survey. So we can just share that if there’s anything that you wanted to add, and I’m sure you can share this after the webinar. We’ll just share that slide now. Because anything you wanted to add on there. You’re on mute again.

48:16

Just to show the full surveys available for anybody to download from the website or send an email to marketing at Shadi. parsons.com. And we’ll send you a full copy. That was all, I was a slight plug to show. But thanks so much practice for organising this. It’s been in great time. Thanks.

48:35

Yeah. And also just wanted to add, also spoke about, obviously, our personality profiling tool, if if anyone on this call, wants to carry out our assessments to gain kind of more self awareness and understanding of what your dominant personality traits are. And it captures both the personality traits and the aspirations. And so giving you a time to think about what are my aspirations both in career and personal, and then please send me an email. My contact details will be provided after and happy to have a one to one once you’ve done those assessments as well. And thank you very much to practice.

49:17

Worries. Thanks, Shona. And thank you, everyone for joining us today. And in similarly, if anyone has any more questions that they want to submit, they can send them to Shona or Mike at marketing at Shelly parsons.com or info at Praxis42 two.com. We’ll provide those addresses you can send them in and we’ll make sure that the panel answer any additional questions that you might have. And we will also then post those questions and answers on our resources page. And also a link to the recording of this webinar will go out so anybody that signed up that didn’t manage to to join live today, then then you will get you will get that so just for me to say thank you very March, everybody really interesting webinar today and we’ve got lots of things coming in from from from everybody that’s been that’s been viewing the webinars. So thank you very much, everybody. Thanks everyone.