The role of physiotherapy in occupational health – Lina Chauhan

Adam Clarke 5:01
So do you think you’re having that opportunity then, to go into the into the private sector, and have, you know, real influence over and throughout the journey, kind of going from, suppose, in the early days, understanding how that department was set up, looking at how what their strategies were, how they were operating, and then as you’ve moved through your career, becoming more influential in setting that standard for the organizations that you’ve worked with. Have you, have you found is that, is that where your kind of passion, your passion lies? Yeah, absolutely,

Speaker 1 5:31
because it’s been what, over 15 years I’ve worked in industry, so there’s a lot of time there that I’ve had to see how different organizations utilize and support services of in particular, physiotherapy, how it could be utilized in the workplace, for people, giving you know, how the app, how it’s accessed, what information do people want? What is it that’s going to help people? Yeah, so it’s been great to be able to take all that experience over the years and speaking to people who utilize those services, and also various stakeholders to see well, to influence how we could or how we should provide that service to people. It’s also great to be able to use data. And I think that’s the thing that you hear more and more nowadays, is it people say, Okay, if you’ve got musculus problem, they just provide physiotherapy. And the thing is, physiotherapy it’s not the answer for everyone. But you know, with the organizations that I work in at the moment, what’s great is that they’re very much open to looking at the data, seeing how we could take much of a strategic approach, how can we have the best impact, and making it more nuanced, to the to the cases that are there, out there,

Adam Clarke 6:40
and I guess then you could kind of drill down more into the specifics, the specific risks that those organizations carry, and get a bit more targeted on which activities, which which jobs carry the most, the most risk and and how can we, you know, apply some resources to manage those in the in the first place, so that we’re Having less having to do less referrals for pain management afterwards, one of the projects

Speaker 1 7:04
I’m working on right now is looking at the job itself. What are the operational requirements, what impacts they have on the musculoskeletal system? How are people managing their system or their health? And you know, how is it that we can work together to educate people, but also keep people healthy in the workplace for a longer lifespan, and like I say, in that preventative way, and so that, essentially, the number that then access for savvy might be less, or they might access it at an earlier point when they’re going to have a greater, greater impact. That’s one of the actually thinking about the roles I’m doing right now. It’s so when I when I think back, I think to be given a blank canvas and to say, okay, look, you’ve got this blank canvas. You’ve had all this experience. You look at research, you look at data, you can be creative. What is it you want? What is it you think is going to work? Create. And that’s one of the great things within the roles that I have at the moment. And

Adam Clarke 8:04
it’s really interesting, because I think there are plenty of people out there who, if you gave them a blank canvas and said, you know, go and do something, would immediately think, I don’t want to be, I don’t want to be responsible for for that. Because if I’ve got, if I’ve got no framework to go from I’m firing blind, and that means that I’m possibly more likely to make a mistake. It might not work the first time, which obviously is okay, trust

Speaker 1 8:27
me, I have had very nervous moments. I’m a natural warrior, but I’m so passionate. I was so passionate about making a difference. I’m so passionate about, um, influencing, and, you know, influence, letting people know how physiotherapy can work in occupational health, and when you work within a team that really supports that thinking and allows you to thrive, you essentially do thrive. And yeah, you might put something together, and by the end of that project, think maybe that’s not delivering where I wanted it to, and they might have to tweak it. You tweak it at the end of the day, we’re all humans, but at the forefront of it, or the most important thing, so I always have to remind myself is, why are we doing what we’re doing? Or why I’m doing what I’m doing is to make a difference to that one person. And I think that definitely helps me get through those moments where I have a bit of a wobble.

Adam Clarke 9:16
Well, it’s, it’s the most powerful thing, your your why, or your purpose, the why am I, you know, why do I do? What do I do? Why do I care? Why do I put the extra effort in? Why do I go and, you know, go above and beyond? Yeah, it’s often for that, for that purpose. And that’s the thing that where, you know, where you said you’re a natural worrier, perfectly normal. But when you then think back to the to the why, that’s what helps you put that worry to one side and be like, Okay, I might be worrying about this, but actually I need to make a decision, and I need to try, you know, I need to present something. We need to go forwards. Things may need to be tweaked along the along the way, but I’m prepared to put that forward. And, you know, manage that part of my personality, because I’m trying to achieve something here that’s. Kind of bigger than me, so that, yeah, I think that’s that’s in all the conversations that I’ve had with people who are really kind of clear on their on their purposes, it’s what helps you achieve. It’s what helps you achieve things. Because you’re not, you know, in this particular case, you’re not necessarily focused on, you know, making as much money as you possibly can for something. But actually, you know, the business case for everything you do is, well, actually, we’re trying to keep people healthy and and in work and productive. And if we can achieve that goal, they can, you know, carry on and achieve some business, business related goals of creating revenue, or whatever else that we need to, that we need to do. Or on the flip side of it, you have people who can’t work, are off sick for long periods of time, or, as you said, already, in certain cases, are not okay working going forward. And you know, from certainly from a moral perspective, for most organizations, you’d like to think that having a basic level of care for the people who we, who we work with and are impacted by us, should be a basic foundation of running any business, but it’s obviously not always the case.

Speaker 1 11:03
No, it’s not always the case, but I do feel, over the last few years, businesses are starting to take, well, open their eyes a little bit more and have that moral approach, because people are important, and when you keep people happy, they work better for you from a business perspective. But I guess when that, when I look at it from a clinician point, we want to keep people, you know, healthy, we I always say health is wealth and that’s the heart side. But yeah, yeah, sometimes it’s difficult to get that terminology translated into business speak so that businesses can understand.

Adam Clarke 11:53
So Lina, how do we translate that to to a language that business can understand then as a how has it changed over over time. Yeah, when you when you were perhaps a little bit more naive about how you might get something across the line to, you know, 15 years worth of experience later,

Speaker 1 12:10
I think I used to rabbit a lot before and try and get so much detail out there so that people understand that I know what I’m talking about, but people don’t want to hear that. They want, you know what I’ve learned over the years and took in many years, the art of getting the detail in the least amount of words possible, just saying it how it is. And I think I’ve got much better at that. Before, I used to prepare so much and try to keep so much detail in my head that when I used to have these meetings, or when I used to have to speak, or when I used to have to put something on a presentation, it’ll just be overloaded, and you kind of get lost. And over the years, it’s just become a lot more streamlined, and that comes with confidence than it and that which grows over the years, and then the reflection from various meetings and various presentations are

Adam Clarke 12:55
some really, really good points there. I mean, I like the starting, the starting, one of you trying to gone through that journey. Have been there before, where you feel like the starting point is, I need to convince the people in the room that I know what I’m talking about, but you know, if it’s an in house role, generally speaking, like they hired you because you know what you’re talking about, or if you’re consulting, you know, assuming they’ve done the due diligence, you know, you already should have the audience. So the starting point is kind of try and push that to one, one side. You’re talking with, you’re talking with authority, as it is. Anyway, they’re looking to you to say, You know what? Yeah, here’s our here’s our organization. You’re that. You’re the specialist. What do we need to what do we need to know? What do we need to consider? So I think that you’re right that building that confidence. And sometimes I think, where you have to experience it, you have to experience those first few times where you just feel outside of your comfort zone and knowing what that knowing what that looks and feels from. And I’m glad you said about reflection. I think that’s it’s so important to reflect on how did that go? Did it go as I think it did. If I were to do that again tomorrow, what would I What would I do differently so that the, you know, the next iteration of that is, you know, hopefully even it’s only 1% improved slightly better than it was before. Yeah,

Speaker 1 14:09
absolutely. I think the reflection part is such a big aspect to understanding what you felt went right, what could have gone better, not to be hard on yourself and then to move forward. So I’ve got better with some meetings and presentations. So no are going to be difficult, and take a time out after and usually going for a walk always helps me clear my mind, and then I will have maybe a couple of deep meetings with various team members to help process my thoughts. Because I think you need to process it to move forward. You can’t stay in that cycle. Otherwise, you you won’t go anywhere, you won’t learn, and you won’t move forward. And I, although I, you know, like I said earlier, I’m a natural warrior, and I try not to be a perfectionist, but, but, um, I throw myself out there, like, I just have to get out the console, you know, my comfort zone. Because when I’m at my comfort zone, that’s when I’m achieving, even

Adam Clarke 14:57
with experience. You know, I think you need. To have a level of discomfort, because that’s what makes us do good work. It makes us not become complacent. It makes us challenge ourselves. Say, Okay, I might have got this far, but let’s not, let’s not rest on what I’ve done previously. You know, as always a new challenge, as always a new objective, how can I make sure that I’m still meeting that? And I also think, as you said a second ago, testing your ideas and having people around you, either internally, if you’ve got them, or, you know, if it’s people in your network to sound out ideas and look, you know, here’s the problem I’ve got. This is what I’m thinking of, thinking of doing. This is how I’m thinking of approaching it. You know, does that feel right to you, or is there anything that seems that I’m that I’m missing. It’s gonna be such a valuable thing to thing to do, especially when your position of authority, and even if you’re especially if you’re doing it with people who kind of sit sit below you, giving them an opportunity to listen here out to that’s okay. That’s that should be part of your, of your toolkit when you’re coming up with your strategies for managing these situations. So

Speaker 1 16:01
right now, the two roles I have, one is clinical, and the other one is leading and strategy and putting in initiatives, and then evaluating it, doing research. And what’s great, I might have an idea for one role. So this to say the needing of the research. I’ll go into one of my clinic clinics, or speak to people who is going to impact. Well, I’m thinking about this. What do you think? And they give you really good feedback, good responses. And so it works both ways, equally. If in my other role, they’re thinking, Okay, we want to think about doing this initiative. And you know, is it going to land? Well, is it going to make a difference? I could speak to people in my clinic and say, Well, we think of this. What do you think? And they might say, No, well, maybe do this or do that. So it works really well because you have that communication or that ability to take it back and forth and ask around. And

Adam Clarke 16:52
how have you found kind of building that network of colleagues and people you’ve worked with in the past and others. How have you found that throughout your career that has nurturing that or building those relationships really helped you develop and grow? So

Speaker 1 17:11
the kind I used to work for before, I had a huge network there within my team, and then I left to work where I’m now working, and you’re going from working with a raw embedded team, one physio amongst many other physios. So you speak the same language, language, almost, and you can communicate and understand, and then you move to a role where you are the early physiotherapist in, you know, clinically, or the early musculature specialist. And not having that network or that safety net almost I did struggle honestly five years ago, five six years ago, I struggled big time. But what I realized is, I mean, so many friendships as well as you know, maintained relationship with colleagues over the years, and I’ve maintained over the last few years, and we’re always talking back and forth, and I think it’s really important that you do share your experiences and you keep that that line of communication open. I’m now also part of Acpo and part the committee so that the associates chartered occupant charge of his therapist in occupational health and ergonomics. So that’s another group of people that I can tap into as well. Yeah, it’s really important and and I do make an effort in maintaining those relationships.

Adam Clarke 18:27
That’s really, really good to hear. So talk to you about the the change then when you, when you, because you’re in TfL for, for quite some while, and I can only imagine moving into that place where you are, you were the main person delivering you obviously make it made a conscious choice to to do that. But you could have easily had a career that spans as long as you wanted to into in TfL, and you got, you know, quite a level of comfort there. How did you kind of step out of that comfort zone to go into the new role. And then how did you, how did you find yourself in the early days of being in the in the new role? You know, how did you feel? What? What was it that? Or when did it click to make you kind of feel comfortable that actually, you know, I this is the right role for me. I am capable of doing it. And the natural worry kind of went away.

Speaker 1 19:19
Yeah. So when I joined TfL. I was the third physio that was recruited. By the time I left after 13 years I was there were the physio team had nine physios. I’d reached a point where there was nowhere else for me to go. Career wise, it took me two years to make the decision to leave, because it was such a great team finally made the decision to leave. Was very nervous. And then I started working for British Airways and British Telecom BT with British Airways, with BA my role there was to set up the in house physio provision. So that was setting up something that I’m very much used to, essentially bread and butter, but also thinking a bit more managed. Real wise, and they were so welcoming, the team, the health service team, they are so welcoming, and they were so excited about this opportunity. So you kind of get taken along with that enthusiasm. And it’s that enthusiasm that got me going, because I was going in one or two days a week. So it’s quite hard to set up a service, you know, when you’re not there the whole week and you’re learning, and it’s different organization, and I’m used to the TFL ways, and this is a different company, much bigger company as well, and it’s global, so there’s a lot of learning, but the enthusiasm of the the health services, got me through Well, now it’s so embedded, and the feedback is so great and so positive. You know, we’re looking at seeing how we can expand it, which is, which is great. And they are very much looking to also look at how we can manage musculoskeletal health in preventative way. So they’re always forward thinking, and I think that helps a lot. When I started my job up being tea now, this was a new role, and about giving this title group ergonomic musculoskeletal wellbeing specialist, I absolutely hated that title, because when you go to meetings and you have to introduce yourself, it’s a bit wordy. And I want to say I’m a physiotherapist, but technically, I’m not a physiotherapist. My role is much more. It’s very different. It’s strategy, leading it thinking outside the box, come to terms with the with the title now, but I felt this like a fish out of water. If I’m really honest, I felt like a fish out of water at BT when I first started, um, because you’re discussing, or you’re, yeah, you’re discussing things that are very much outside of the clinical realm, so very much out of my comfort zone. It’s a different company. It’s a huge company. You know, there’s so many different parts to BT, but it was the excitement here of having that blank canvas to just think wide And to create and to do

Adam Clarke 22:01
outside of your extensive subject matter expertise, as you’ve transitioned through time into more senior roles, how have you found that developing your influencing skills, your communicating skills, your sometimes internal political skills? How have you developed those and how have you seen that change so that you can get you know or be effective in your roles?

Speaker 1 22:27
I become more comfortable with small chat, but small chat about the world, small chat about politics, more chat about whereas in the beginning, I would have stayed very, very quiet. And I think as you as I got further further within my career, you do need to get to know people a bit differently. And I and instead of small chat, and like, you know, if you ask my friends or family, they will say, I’m very good with small chats, but I don’t think I am. So, yeah, within the work environment, I think just worked hard and then at becoming more comfortable with the small with the small chat, and in terms of, I guess, the skills that I’ve required, you know, there’s always these courses so you can go on or you can look up things online, and I might have a look and see, okay, well, what’s the best way to deliver a presentation on this? What’s the best way to write this up? And then I will, you know, go through it with someone, either, you know, with a family friend or team dependent team dependent, team member, depending on what the content is. Obviously, I don’t know, you know, value their their feedback, yeah, yeah. I

Adam Clarke 23:27
know. I know what you mean. It’s it’s interesting, isn’t it? Because I think at times we forget that we’ve got our home personality, our home have, and that has a whole load of, whole load of skills and things that’s been developed. But then when we go into, go into a work, we’re wearing this different we’ve got a little bit of a different personality. And it’s at times, I think there’s, there’s things that I probably wouldn’t do, you know, especially on the small shows, like going up to somebody in a in a bar, and then striking up a conversation with somebody when I’m on my personal hound. So there’s not really something that I’m going to be, you know, particularly loving the idea of but when I’ve got my kind of workout on and I’m a networking event and I’m talking to somebody, is I just go and do it without thinking, because of it’s like they say, over time, I’ve just worked on, I’ve worked on doing that, that it becomes less phases me less. But when I’ve got my own choice of whether I want to do it or not, if I’m a if I have like, Oh, I’ve got all this, I’ve got all this, I’ve got all the skills to be able to do it, but, well, not really sure that. I always Fancy that. I

Speaker 1 24:26
think in the beginning, I still get so nervous getting going up to people and talk to them, like, do they really want to talk to me? But you know, I should go up a network, I should go and talk, and then you just think, I just have to do it. And then you just, like, as you just get used to it. But I’m, yeah, if I’m out socially, it’s just more comfortable. If it’s more different. And I do have people do still have a different personality out of work, at work and out of work, but I’m also quite laid back at work as well, I think. And in the beginning, when I first started on these roles, I thought, Oh, I have to be a little bit more professional, a little bit more, I don’t know, strict, so to speak. But then I thought, well, actually being laid back doesn’t make me. Less professional. It’s just, you know, my nature, I might, you know, I might be laid back, but I’m always taking then what, what’s being said in meetings. I’m always observing more. I’m always learning. And you know, to some degree, you do have a work persona, but you shouldn’t really change who you are. And I think that’s something that I’ve become more comfortable with as a progressed. Yeah,

Adam Clarke 25:24
I completely, I completely agree with you. I think there’s it’s knowing, the better you know yourself, the better you can be, you know, or bring, bring, bringing that self to work. But then I also think, you know, we it’s sensible when you’re starting somewhere new that you need to spend the kind of the starting point just absorbing that culture, absorbing the people around you, to know how you can tailor, tailor your approach towards that, towards that culture. Because sometimes going, you know, full guns blazing with, you know, all of your personality might actually start you off on the back foot, because anybody coming into an new organization, the people in that organization, they’re also trying to understand you a bit better. And it’s a kind of a using your emotional intelligence to kind of judge for who the people that I’m working with, you know, how do they, how do they want to be communicated with? How you know, who are the people that I need to be influenced with, who the people that I need to know that all, all that kind of information gathering. But doesn’t mean that you have to change. Doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to change your your personality. It’s just kind of working out. How can I, how can I deploy myself to be most, most effective in this culture that I’ve just come into that may be completely different to a culture that I’ve been in previously.

Speaker 1 26:46
The one thing I have been consistent with is making sure I don’t speak fast, because that’s always been a thing, and especially when you’re nervous or you just want to get your words out. So the beginning is to put posted saying, Do not speak faster

Adam Clarke 26:59
if you imagine you are new into the world of work, and your first experience is being fully home based, and you know, quite likely from your parents house. How are you going to learn those kind of interpersonal skills that you get when you’re trying to work with people? It’s a real challenge that where we where we are at the moment. And you can see why some organizations now that are kind of fully committed to, yeah, totally hybrid. Do what works for you. You know, now starting to look at it like we might need to unwind that a little a little bit, because, actually, is it good for us to spend five days a week working from home and not interacting with people on a when you’re in the room and you can feel them and you can see their body language, and you can, you know, you’re feeding off of that, or the like, say that the random, the random chat that you get into about, Well, what happened over the you know, what happened over the weekend? What was good that you watched on TV recently? All of that, all of that that we feel so minor, but I actually think it’s probably quite important.

Speaker 1 27:55
I think when you go into the office, you get to know your colleague, you have a sense of belonging, I think, and you have these incidental chats, whether it’s about what’s going on over the weekend, whether it’s, you know, what you’re watching TV and so forth, or anything personal. But also, like, if you’ve got something that’s bothering you also is in your mind with work. You know, just suddenly seeing someone having a conversation, it’s a bit easier than how to book in a team’s meeting. I think, you know people who are new into jobs and new into their careers, I think it’s really important for them to be in the working environment so they’re surrounded by different types of people, and they have those opportunities, because you learn a lot that as if that is not necessarily structured in your I don’t know training plan or diary, you know, there’s intangible things that can make you you know, The person that you are as you progress with your your career. I think that’s really important, really important. And then you also, you take into account that when you are commuting to work, and I know commuting is always one of those things that it’s a bugbear with people, because you think, Oh, why am I treating an hour here and there when I could be more productive at home, right? I honestly think when you’re commuting, and I know if anyone commutes for longer than now, that’s the point where people no longer really like it or enjoy it, and it hasn’t, you know, it may have an impact on them, but when you’re commuting, you’re you’re getting up, you’re getting ready, you’re walking, you’re getting fresh air, you’re amongst people that are out there in the world. And I think all of that it’s so essential to us as human beings.

Adam Clarke 29:23
Yeah, we’re naturally community driven people. Our from the dawn of time, that’s what we needed community to function. And actually, when we look at what we’ve done with technology, actually, we’ve made it easier for us to be out of community. You know, we’ve whatever it is that you might need you can generally get delivered to you, to you, and you can function very easily as an employee, without ever leaving your house. So where’s your, like you said, Where’s your sense of belonging, where’s your sense of community? And you know, it’s, it can cause some, definitely, definitely side effects that that will, that will cause if we don’t get that balance balance right. It, but we are, you know, we’re not that long outside of, you know, covid and everything that says cause. So it’s not a massive surprise that we’ve again, trying to find the right way of doing this, in the right and the right balance. And I guess, from your from your perspective, that I’ll be looking, looking at this and the influence that it has on the people in the organizations that you’ve, that you’re, that you’re working with, I suspect you know, from people who are working, working from home, and you know, the from the physical aspects of, you know, workstation setups at home, you know, to the to the well being, you know, of what, how is working from home impacting on our loneliness, for example, and what does that look like, you know, going going forward? Yeah, any any insights from, from you on where we’re going? Got

Speaker 1 30:44
involved quite heavily in the DSC assessment. Now, I worked with them, with you guys, on our new DSC assessment, right? And I looked at a lot of research. I also took into account what I was seeing in physio clinic. And, you know, taking all that into account, you know, we built a DSC assessment at BT, where the content was very much driven by a health and wellbeing lens, and it’s all about, okay, fine. This is how you set up your DFT and your working environment, but this is how we want you to be healthy, and this is why you need to be healthy. Three you know, talked about, you know, having breaks between meetings, setting up your meeting with questions, sort of either 25 minutes or 15 minutes, you know, put sentences in there about physical activity, and that’s something that sort of interests you and you know how the UK population, you know, what, 67% of the UK population spend their working day in prolonged sitting so giving people that information, saying how that links to their cardiovascular system, or how that links to, you know, The risk of diabetes or certain types of cancers put in there about light. And how could that, you know, how that can have an impact on on your sleep? And I think if people just know those little nuggets of information so that they can make a change there and then, I think that’s really healthy for them. You know, that was really important. And even when the pandemic hit, I had all these calls from all my friends, apparently, about their desk setup will be the best way to the best way to set the desk up. And, you know, gave them loads of advice, but I said, You know what? You just need to keep moving. You can have the best setup in the world, but really, you need to keep moving. And I think that’s just really important. So with technology, you know, the way technology is designed is designed to make you do less, to make it easier for you, but you still need to move, because you still you’re still bones, aren’t you, you’re still ligaments. You stole the muscles, and you’re still a scootal system, and the best thing for you is to keep moving. And you know, I became a physiotherapist, but I was never physically active prior to that, if someone said to go for a run or go to the gym, they built a gym or anything. And when I qualified, I thought, you know, I should join the gym. I should try and run. Try to run. Didn’t go down well at all. But now I am so active, and it’s because of my, I guess, my job, that I see the impact of being in it and had such an impact on not just your physical health, but your mental health as well. And then, as we grow older, the quality of life that we need, because things are going to happen, that you need to have physical and mental resilience. And there are so many things that are in our control that we we forget. So it’s Yeah. So I always tell people, keep moving. You know, do what keeps you happy? Activity wise, you don’t have to go into the gym if you do good, you know, enjoy it. Go to gym. Go for a walk, go for a run, swim. I’m a big swimmer. I love swimming and stretching. There’s so many things that we could do that keeps us healthy. It’s

Adam Clarke 33:34
all about, I think it’s all about the habit. You know, I can think back to tiles when you start, you know, the thought of starting the gym so Jim and the first week is a real slog, and yet ache because you haven’t used those closed muscles for a really long for really long time. But then you start to feel, you know, I’ve had a really good session. Feel quite good, and build and building on it. I think that the tricky thing is that to form a decent habit, you have to do something for not days. Used to do it for weeks, and sometimes into into months before it’s something that actually just becomes natural to you, to want to, to want to do. And so you’re right, there’s, there’s definitely nuggets of things that you can do. So you know, if it’s not, if it’s not a conversation that you have to have on teams, but you can actually have it by on the phone, or chuck in the check in your earphones. And then I do laps of my do laps of the house. It’s just getting people to start, to start something, and then try and carry it, carry it on. But you’re right. In the long run, it’s it’s far more beneficial. And I think, you know, I feel for you at times, because you know me being more of a safety, safety person by by trade, we’re looking at the people at times will pay more attention, because they realize that the impact of getting something wrong on the safety is generally felt right now, like I fell off that ladder. It really hurt now, whereas you’re more dealing with the this is you in 20 years time, are going to feel the impact of the thing that you haven’t done. Today?

Speaker 1 35:00
No, it is really hard work all the after all these years, I still don’t, I haven’t got that, got a nugget that will resolve or solve that issue. You know, people will say, Oh, we should know this earlier. I said, Okay, so if I had given, if you had access to this information earlier, or we told you to do this, would you done it? Like, about why? Because, like, you just said, it’s not an issue for them at that point, right? And then it becomes an issue. But trying to just influence where we can we’re just small in small ways. I think that’s the key. Because if we can get people thinking a bit more positively about what’s it within their capacity to help themselves, then that should help.

Adam Clarke 35:40
So just one thing, I want to just focus on going back to being in the conversation. You know, when you said you moved over to to TfL, going into that, to that established team, you said you had a great manager. Just wanted to sort to touch on, you know, kind of the mentor, mentor relationship, you know, talk to me about why they were a great, a great manager, and what did you learn from them, and when you had the opportunity to manage, manage people, what did you take? What did you take forward from that? Josh wouldn’t

Speaker 1 36:05
mind me mentioning her name, Angela Webster, and I was still really good friends with that actually meeting her tomorrow at night. She was very invested in me developing as a physiotherapist, but she also knew I had a huge interest in research, academic research. And so she provided an environment, along with the head of occupational health there back then was Dr Levia carton, who’s really well known in occupational health medicine. They just created an environment where you could thrive, really, and they were there with advice, support, and I work with great doctors who would also give time to help me understand, Okay, I’ve done this assessment, then I’m gonna write to support, what would be useful in that report. Like, I mean, you know, we talked about earlier, about the audience, what is it? Well, we’re gonna write in that report, but that’s also, you know, bound to our clinical scope, within our clinical scope. And, you know, with Angela, it was very much about strengths and weaknesses. What your strengths? What your weaknesses? What can we do to help further your strengths? But if there are weaknesses, what can we do to help to have strengths? You’ve got to have weaknesses, and having weaknesses is not a bad thing. But I know some people feel it makes it it. I don’t know. They don’t say it’s a good thing. But you know, we’re people, we’re humans. So it’s about, it was about nurturing that and giving time to develop me clinically, and that kind of filtered through to my professional and personal life. And then I moved, you know, moved into these other two companies, and once again, I’ve been really lucky with the manager of the God. So the manager at BA, he’s great, and he’s a consultant physician, occupation, occupational position. And he’s brilliant at bouncing ideas, you know, around talking about things, and you know what my thoughts are, and and that helps in terms of mentoring aspect, as well as a wider team there and then at BT, I mean, I work with two doctors there and a nurse in our clinical team, and they’re great. So Richard, who’s the Chief Medical Officer, and then we’ve got Al Shan, who’s the head of health, and then Joe, who is our nurse, but they’re a great team to work with. And once again, it’s the mentoring I have with them. I feel like I’ve just got lucky with the roles. And

Adam Clarke 38:21
that’s the great I think that’s the great thing about about mentoring, because the people who’ve ever influenced on your life, who’ve given their time to support you, help you develop and and grow, yeah, they’ll feel a lot of satisfaction out of seeing where you’ve got to and, you know, now, it’s kind of the Pay It Forward piece, but also you, you know, over, over your career, if you could mentor 10s of people, and you’re having a ripple effect on their their career, and it just keeps, you know, if we can all do that, and all keep, keep going and take, I know, mentoring takes time. It’s, you know, it’s a thing that you’ve got to, got to invest in, not just a one off, a one off activity, but you can really help other people develop. And yeah, it’s very fulfilling. So last question, then, what’s what’s next? Where? What’s what’s next in your in your in your path. Do you have any idea what your you know what challenges that you want to, you want to take on, or we’re going to branch out into working working for yourself and do consultancy. Have you got any grand grand plans?

Speaker 1 39:28
Well, do I have any grand plans other than trying to have a little bit more, better work life balance? I don’t know. I mean, I really do enjoy working within the corporate world. I enjoy working within these two roles I have at the moment. It keeps me really fulfilled. Every time I think, oh, it’s going to calm down, another project comes up, I feel like I’m this octopus with all these tentacles, and the tentacles just keep growing. I do want to continue. I mean, you know, I always just, I’m quite lucky with the roles I have, because I get to do wet one. Do I get to still be a clinician and help people directly? I mean, that’s what I trained in, that’s my bread and butter that gives me, you know, great job satisfaction, but also to help people, you know, when I can it, you know, it’s published to do that, but then I’ve got this other role where I can lead, strategize, do research, so I get to do all those aspects still, and I feel like I just don’t want to give up any of that at the moment. So

Adam Clarke 40:26
Well, I think most, most people, will probably be content with one of the two roles that you’ve got in the organizations that you work with. Having managing, managing two roles across two large organizations is a there’s no challenge in it, in itself. But I think you know, going back to the words that you said earlier, you’ve carved you’ve carved this out. So there’s a reason you’re doing these two jobs. And it’s two different jobs, and you love them, because you’ve somehow managed to convince two organizations to let you only work half the time on that. And one to do because I want to do this. And, oh, actually, I don’t want to do that for you. I want to do this, this over here. And hey presto, like, that’s what you’ve got. It’s only clearly got some great influencing, influencing skills that you’ve managed to get get yourself into that situation.

Speaker 1 41:06
I have no idea how it happened. I have to say, Adam. I don’t know how it happened, but it happened and yeah, it’s just great. It’s just great position to be in. Yeah, it’s great to do all of it.

Adam Clarke 41:16
Shouldn’t we all be in a position where we try to in the pursuit of finding a, you know, job or a career that’s something that we love and that we are, that we are passionate about, because guys is significant cliche, but when you’re passionate about something, it doesn’t feel those times when you are the work life balance isn’t quite going in the life direction, but you, but you’re reminding yourself, well, I’m doing it Because I’m I’m making a difference then, because this is what I this is what I care about. And you know, okay, I shouldn’t let this become a pattern, but I’m in pursuit of of what I love, so why not?

Speaker 1 41:52
Yeah, definitely gonna stop this pattern of overworking. That’s like my number one on the list. But yeah, so when I’ve spoken to people about maybe changing things. They’ve always said, well, you’d just be miserable because you really enjoy what you do. So you could have more time for other aspects and have a much more of a, I guess, job in one place or steady place. I don’t know. But would I be happy? Probably not. I think I really enjoy the variety that I have. Well,

Adam Clarke 42:18
it’s been 2020, years in the making, Lena, and you know, there might have been a lot of steps in in between, but the, you know, the consistent and this is you. And so you know what you’ve done, the opportunities that you’ve taken, the people that you’ve met, the support that you’ve the support that you’ve had, the opportunities that you’ve got to try new things out and convince people. And yeah, all of that, ultimately, has come from, come from you. So you know it’s, it’s been a really fascinating conversation, such an interesting start, and where you are now, and say that the lots of people listening out there, thinking, love to have carved out a role like that, or I get to do this over here and this, so this over here, I mean, there’s, there’s plenty of parts of, I’m sure plenty rather jobs like I’d rather just not do that bit, if that’s okay, or that sounded doing that, but over there and not that. So thank you so much for taking the time out to have a conversation, reflect back on your on your career, and share some of your your experiences and what you’ve learned. It’s been really fascinating. So thank you so much for that.

Speaker 1 43:26
Thank you. Thank you for inviting us and for the chat. It’s been but, yeah, it’s been very it’s been an opener, really. Thank you.

Adam Clarke 43:34
Thanks so much for listening to risk sleep. Repeat. If you’d like to appear on the show, if there’s a topic you’d like to discuss, or if you want to let us know your thoughts, please do so using the hashtag, risk, sleep, repeat, or get in touch via our website at Praxis42.com